Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

This is for general discussions of Indian music and dance that do not belong elsewhere. It is also for the announcement of workshops, lectures, and performances.

Moderators: povster, s1owpoke, cabernethy, coughcapkittykat

Post Reply
User avatar
chrisitar
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 1:49 am
Location: Columbia, Missouri

Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by chrisitar » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:37 am

http://imgur.com/a/iiQN5

I just put this album together for you everyone to see these amazing old instruments. Any insight into any of them is appreciated. Is that a sarod or sursagar in there? And that green rabab? it looks different than the classic afghani design. and that surbahar with the strange head? Drool away!! :P
Meend over matter

David Russell Watson
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:52 am

Re: Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by David Russell Watson » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:45 am

chrisitar wrote:http://imgur.com/a/iiQN5

I just put this album together for you everyone to see these amazing old instruments.
Thank you!
chrisitar wrote:Any insight into any of them is appreciated. Is that a sarod or sursagar in there?
That's a seni rabab. See http://chandrakantha.com/articles/india ... /seni.html
chrisitar wrote:And that green rabab? it looks different than the classic afghani design.
Allyn Miner has in her book a picture of an Indian rabab of similar design drawn by François-Joseph Fétis in 1869.

Go to https://books.google.com/books?id=4nPHT ... 57&f=false and look for fig. 57 after pg. 70.

David

David Russell Watson
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:52 am

Re: Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by David Russell Watson » Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:59 am

David Russell Watson wrote:
That's a seni rabab. See http://chandrakantha.com/articles/india ... /seni.html
Except that the rabab in your picture has a bin-style bridge, whereas the seni rabab normally uses the same type found on sarods, rababs, and sarangis.

There are at least three explanations that come to mind:

(1) The original bridge has been lost and the museum stuck that one on as replacement.

(2) There is, or used to be, a subgroup of seni rabab that uses a bin-style bridge.

(3) The rabab in your picture was a one-off experimental model.

However bin-style bridges aren't normally used on membranous soundtables. I think that's due to their greater weight, but there might be other issues besides.

David

yussef ali k
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by yussef ali k » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:21 pm

Hi, all - hope life's good.

Chris, David,
Thank you both.

Allow me some opinion, hybridisation is fun although 1 can never be sure looking at its results: :roll:

The #2 pic may be a Bin-sitar (please see Hamilton'89/ Sitar Music in Calcutta): fretshape, taraf, not a tube 'core' (= w/ patri);

#3: I've seen this labeled as Sarinda (fromSindh/Punjab).

#4: The sitar neck on this Taus can be compared to #2: it also seems as the frets contact the neck along their length (We are almost always taught a concave patri owes its existence to the presence of taraf, I think there could be more to this, i.e., not enough of a reason ... well, maybe).

I don't get to see pix beyond the rubab :?

Have fun,
Y.

David Russell Watson
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:52 am

Re: Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by David Russell Watson » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:23 pm

yussef ali k wrote:
I don't get to see pix beyond the rubab :?
Oh no.

I tried posting them here for you, but apparently they're too big.

Try accessing each separately with these urls:

"Tanpura"
http://i.imgur.com/VXPth3i.jpg

"Rudra Veena"
http://i.imgur.com/tCUBIGG.jpg

"Saradna"
http://i.imgur.com/wwEgy9Z.jpg

"Taus"
http://i.imgur.com/sq9uJ5F.jpg

"Saraswati Veena"
http://i.imgur.com/arqCMxP.jpg

"Saraswati Veena toomba"
http://i.imgur.com/Som8dqs.jpg

"Rabab"
http://i.imgur.com/LASAIS6.jpg

"Rabab neck"
http://i.imgur.com/PQSEx2s.jpg

"Rabab face"
http://i.imgur.com/pxXE8tt.jpg

"Sarangi"
http://i.imgur.com/DQAlYot.jpg

"Afghani Rubab"
http://i.imgur.com/trjYIkd.jpg

"Surbahar"
http://i.imgur.com/j4osttf.jpg

"Sarod/Sursagar"
http://i.imgur.com/LgYbiiw.jpg

"Swarmandal"
http://i.imgur.com/780BAfs.jpg

David

yussef ali k
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by yussef ali k » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:16 pm

David,
Thanks for the remaining pix.

Regarding what I above labeled 'Bin-Sitar', it's probably missing a tarb-bridge that doesn't exist on the Bin: that's when stuff becomes fuzzy between Bin-Sitar-surbahar.
I wonder why this instrument didn't come to last (ergonomy?). Well ...

... Have fun,
Y.

User avatar
Greg
Posts: 880
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Kent UK

Re: Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by Greg » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:47 pm

see here too...the Musical Wonders of India series of films from Darbar...here's the sarangi one, there are others...enjoy...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59FpEMSSQiE


8)
http://www.youtube.com/user/oGJWo
http://www.youtube.com/user/RoomwithaViewmusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/ErithDrumClub

User avatar
povster
Site Admin
Posts: 2549
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:08 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by povster » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:40 pm

Nice effort, Chris! I really enjoy these kinds of sites. The rudra veena you show actually isn't a rudra veena. It is the so called "sitar veena". I was unaware of this instrument until today when I saw it posted here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13580

Immediate differences, as Yusef poionts out: rudra veena has a tubular neck. It has no sympathetic strings. The frets are either set in wax or mounted on a wood base as opposed to the sitar style frets here. Definitely keep the sitar veena on your page but rename it and get a nice shot of a rudra veena!
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official bread of ICM

yussef ali k
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: Antique instruments from the V&A Museum

Post by yussef ali k » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:44 am

Hi, all.
Povster,

You may also remember an older Coyootie post («Old Bin Pic» w/postcard pics) - quite the same or very close Bin-Sitar: The musician in question was probably some Binkar fave student.

Have fun,
Y.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest