Buying and Selling

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ragamala
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Buying and Selling

Postby ragamala » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:05 pm

I seem to be getting into a situation of confrontation re a plug for a carnatic veena for sale n the carnatic forum.

I make no apologies for my stance there - but would it not, as I am sure, be a lot better if for this sort of reason alone we should return to a buying and selling forum, where if an advert is placed this can be judged on its merits and not be subject to more general questioning?

If this ad had been placed in such a classified section it wouldn't have occurred to me to interfere.

As it is, I had to question the advertiser's position, because I don't think it reasonable to suggest you can't buy a veena under that sort of level.

If it's in advertising buy/sale I'll keep my mouth shut - maybe I should do more of that anyway...
Last edited by ragamala on Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

david
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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby david » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:31 pm

I think that your notice o sell a veena is most appropriate and you need not feel any hesitation.

Peace

David Courtney

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ragamala
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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby ragamala » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:47 pm

With respect, David, I think you have maybe misunderstood the situation?

Essentially I am saying, with a strong recommendation, please bring back the buying and selling forum.

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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby david » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:51 am

You must understand. I may manage these forums, but the lead is entirely by the users. When we had a "Buying and Selling forum", is was very clear that the users did not want to use it. Everyone absolutely insisted on using the forums that concerned the instruments to be sold. when the "Buying and Selling" section was merged, there was no massive cry in protest. I really do not have time to spend all day shifting posts to the appropriate sections that the users just don't want to use.

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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby povster » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:11 am

david wrote:when the "Buying and Selling" section was merged, there was no massive cry in protest. I really do not have time to spend all day shifting posts to the appropriate sections that the users just don't want to use.

Peace

David Courtney


I guess that is a problem. Many many users just don't give a damn about the forum itself. It shows in the lack of activity in the THESE FORUMS section, inane questions people ask about "why is this happening?" or "when will this happen?" when so often the answers have been laying unread in the THESE FORUMS area, and the insistence that there particular sale is so special it simply must be posted outside of the Buying/Selling. I think it sucks, quite honestly. I think this is the best ICM forum I have seen but the selfishness and lack of respect for the forum itself that can be shown here is beyond discouraging.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official bread of ICM

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ragamala
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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby ragamala » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:03 pm

David -
I appreciate your dilemma in terms of your time. (I am not quite sure you weren't deliberately misunderstanding me in my last post but I'll let that pass - cartainly I have no veena or any other instrument to sell!).

P.S. If the buying and Selling classification is resomed at least you don't have to change the descriptive blurb on the Dhrupad and Rudra Vina board intro ;-)

Povster -
You made an eminently sensible suggestion earlier in trying to resurrect a buying/selling classified section where it is patently obvious to anyone that the poster is actually selling something or for that matter a wanted section. The area of confusion is where traders use the forum for advertising and with the current situation it is not always apparent to dumbclucks like me for example - that they are touting their own wares.

So the issue is a bit deeper than post location - it is the differentiation between advertisers and folks who want to discuss things and exchange views - even if it is on the detail of a sale that is advertised on ebay or whatever by a third party.

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Aanaddha
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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby Aanaddha » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:24 pm

A moderator could create a 'FOR SALE or BID ' 'sticky' thread within each forum and ask/plead regulars to try to keep music discussions and individual instruments as separate topics. This might also mitigate the heavy commercialization aspect the forums are currently experiencing.

pls excuse me if I piggyback here...my gripe is with the missing 'Performances and Workshops' Forum' - While it may lie dormant for some period or weeks it really hasn't had time to become a popular forum as there is naturally little discussion generated by the topic.
It is quite useful however for readers who may otherwise have difficulty locating any form of ICM workshops or live performance of many different ICM artists visiting in their area. (Vocal, dance, dhrupad,etc. often with potentially combined interests that many of us appreciate.)
If he could sing, and nature to accompany him, what need would he have for an instrument?

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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby david » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:31 pm

As I have said before. I follow the lead of the users, I do not attempt to lead the discussions. I think that a sticky topic is worth a try. We will know in a few months whether the users like it or not.

I request the moderators to create such a sticky topic for each forum, move the appropriate material into it, and let us see how it goes. If any moderator has problems, let me know and I will do what I can at this end.


Peace

David Courtney

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povster
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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby povster » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:19 pm

ragamala wrote: The area of confusion is where traders use the forum for advertising and with the current situation it is not always apparent to dumbclucks like me for example - that they are touting their own wares.

So the issue is a bit deeper than post location - it is the differentiation between advertisers and folks who want to discuss things and exchange views - even if it is on the detail of a sale that is advertised on ebay or whatever by a third party.


I do agree with what you are saying, Ragamala. There has been a grey area, which is why I had suggested a strict "Classified Ads" section to at least focus the real buy/sell things. I was thinking of posts that specifically were to sell an instrument and while it would be in buy/sell, it would also be in the topic related forum. Rarely did I ever see a for sale item that was in another forum also not in Buy/Sell.

Same thing with the Performance and Workshops. Looking as, for example, Alam Khan's recent posting of the ALi Akbar College's upcoming event, there are tabla performances, sitar, sarod etc. So does that get posted in every forum? Or does it go in a centralized area? (I also love the potentil historical aspects of a centralized Performnace forum where, in future years, one can track various performances by various artists. Imagine if such a thing existed since Tan Sen's days! Image

But David has valid points, certainly. How much effort must he put into this place when he has a life well beyond managing this forum? It just gets to me when people ignore the rules that have been in place for a long time and run willy nilly through the boards. I consider this forum as I would David's home. If I enter his home I would do so with respect for it and appreciation for being allowed entry. I wouldn't pee in his plants because I couldn't be bothered to make my way to the bathroom or stick my chewing gum under a table when I am finished chewing it because I didn't feel like asking him where the trash can was.
...Michael
Dasani - the official bottled water of ICM
Panini - the official bread of ICM

haldamos
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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby haldamos » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:35 pm

I was searching for some old posts (that spoke to a recently posted topic) that used to reside in the "Buying and Selling" area. They aren't there anymore. Any idea where they are archived? If at all?,

Thanks,

PH
haldamos

david
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Re: Buying and Selling

Postby david » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:11 am

It is highly doubtful that it would have been delete. If it pertained to sitar then it has probably been moved to the Sitar Section. If it was a bout any other instrument check to see if it has been moved there. Use the search function. Remember there are two search functions, there is the Google one and there is the pHpbb one. There do not work the same so if one fails to show something try the other.

Peace

David Courtnrey


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