Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

This is for discussions on all Indian melodic instruments

Moderators: povster, s1owpoke, cabernethy, coughcapkittykat

barend
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:38 pm
Location: the netherlands

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by barend » Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:21 am

Thanks for those! Some nice oblique patterns there. Not sure what the system is but I think it is just as many possibilities as you can do with 2 notes, 3 notes 4 notes etc. Are they meant to be played on the fret or as meend? You can do both of course.

And what examples does the book give for 2 finger patterns?

jaysitar22
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:46 am

For even number grouping 4, 6, 8 notes
SR Gm PD NṠ
12 12 12 12
The uneven grouping are strange
SRG RGm GmP mPD PDN DNṠ
121 212 121 212 121 212
SRGmP RGmPD
12121 21212
SRGMPDN RGmPDNṠ
1212121 2121212
All the descending passage are with normal fingering with 1 all the way down.
Maybe this system is from the sitars set up with 17 frets, the 2 finger would have to land on Re or Dha frets for rags that use both Gas or Nis to meend these, because there are no frets for these notes.
I think the uneven number examples are confusing in the book because they don’t use any meend,
SRG RGm GmP mPD PDN DNṠ
12 ------- 12--------- 12--------
SRGmP RGMPD
12------ 12-----
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

barend
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:38 pm
Location: the netherlands

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by barend » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:06 am

Thanks! Are these the only examples of the 2 finger system in this book?
Could you scan that page somehow and post it here (or to me)? If it's not too much trouble of course.

jaysitar22
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:52 pm

I don’t have the technology to scan the pages.
The system in the book is very vague, with only a few simple exercises,
most ragas are not straight up and down a scale, or have large gaps between notes,
Here is an article by Arvind Parikh that mentions this technique,
http://www.scribd.com/doc/71295319/Sita ... nce#scribd
“ Sometimes in the fast sapat tans, the middle finger can also be used to play the 'in between' notes of the ascent.”
It seems like this is just a trick to make fast ascending taans easier, and also depends on the particular raag or taan. But in slow or medium tempo playing standard fingerings work fine, and most of the great artists don’t use two fingers for ascending passages, even at fast tempos.
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

barend
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:38 pm
Location: the netherlands

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by barend » Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:14 am

jaysitar22 wrote:I don’t have the technology to scan the pages.
You could also make a picture of the pages and send it through PM or mail. Just see if it is not too much trouble.

OM GUY
Posts: 841
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:10 am
Location: Bothell, Washington State USA

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by OM GUY » Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:44 am

SCare wrote:Hi, Is this book still available to buy?
I can't seem to find any online book stores stocking this book.
Very rare to find it. One day, I will put it in my will to someone. 8)
Let's hope 2016 is less violent and that people discover the soothing influence of ICM. Hari OM!

Lars
Posts: 1313
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:05 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by Lars » Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:48 am

SCare wrote:Hi, Is this book still available to buy?
I can't seem to find any online book stores stocking this book.
Well, you're not looking hard enough although I may not be pinging google well enough but stopped caring awhile ago.... Have been carrying this off and on for years. Sometimes it goes out of print and I'll have to hunt for copies when in India but I've got 3 copies of the hardcover versions in stock here:
http://raincitymusic.com/sitar-tabla-books.htm

It's the last book on the page.

Lars
http://www.raincitymusic.com

jaysitar22
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:58 pm

I got my copy on amazon, there are a few copies on there. The book does have errors, and some parts are confusing. I think this book is geared toward studying music in a college environment, so it is more than a bit scholarly.
For all your use and enjoyment! Here are my transcriptions of some of the raga modes from the book, with additional editing and exercises that I composed.
Lari
Lari means garland or chain. In instrumental music there are two forms, 1) lari in jor, 2) lari of bol. In lari of bol simple rhythmic phrases of Pakhawaj or Tabla are used as a framework, over which instrumental bols are superimposed.
The phrase “tak dhuma kit tak” and its varieties are commonly used. Some examples of the percussion bols used are,
a) tak, kit tak, dhuma kit tak, tak dhuma kit tak b) tak tak, kit tak, tak kit tak, dhuma kit kit tak
c) tak dhuma kit tak kit, d) kit tak kit, dhuma kit tak kit, tak kit kit tak
*It should be noted that there is no set rule for what rhythmic phrases to use, and their instrumental counterparts. In lari the bols used should be relatively simple. Longer and more complex bols are used in larguthava. Here is an example of a percussion phrase with the corresponding instrumental bol,
tak dhuma kit tak, kit tak tak dhuma, dhuma dhuma kit tak, tak dhuma dhuma kit.
da diri da ra, da ra da diri , diri diri da ra, da diri diri da.
The percussion bols are just for demonstration purposes to show how laris are formed. Once the process is understood any rhythmic framework can be used, all one has to do is impose instrumental bols over the pattern.
*The process is shown below to help you compose your own patterns. The rhythms from the alamkar section provide an infinite amount of variations that can be created. For example, the rhythm (33334) is a fairly common one. If the pattern is broken down into its composite parts, some of the possible variations are,
3 aksharas a) I-I, •I-, I•-, I-•, b) I-V, IVV, IVI, VVI, VVV, VI-, c) •VI, V•V, VI•, I•V, V•I, •VV,•V•, V••, ••V d) I••-I, •-I-I-, etc.
4 aksharas a) I-I-, •I-I, I•I-, I-•I, I-I•, b) IVI-, VII-, VVI-, IVIV, VVVI, VI-V, I-VV, IVVI, IVVV c) (V with rests) d) I•-I•-I, •-I•-I•-, etc.
These can be combined in an infinite amount of variations to form laris.
4+4+4+4
1. IVI-, I-IV, VVI-, IVVI 2. IVIV, VVIV, I-VV, VIVV 3. I-VI, I-VI, VI-V, IVVI 4. IVVI, I-VI, I-VI, IVI- 5. VII-, IVI-, VI-V, I-VI
3+2+3+4+4
1. IVI, VI, IVI, I-VI, IVI- 2. VVI, IV, IVI, VVI-, VIVI 3. IVV, VI, VVI, VI-V, I-VI 4. VI-, VV, I-V, I-VI, VVI- 5. I••-V, IV, VIV, VI-V, I-VV
3+3+3+3+4
1. IVI, VVI, I-V, I-V, VVI- 2. VVI, IVI, I-V, VVI, VVVI 3. VIV, VVI, VIV, VVI, VVVI 4. •VV, •VI, •VV, •VI, VIVI
5. IV•, VVI, IV•, VIV, VIVI
2+3+2+3+3+3
1. IV, VI-, VI, VI-, VI-,VI- 2. IV, IVI, VV, IVI, IVI, IVI 3. VI, VIV, IV, IVI, VI-, VI- 4. VV, IVI, IV, VVI, VVI, VVI
5. •V, •V•, V•, VV•, VV•, VV•
Larguthava
This is a portmanteau word, in which a garland (lari) of rhythmic phrases are sewn (guthava) together. This mode is similar to lari, the differences are that the bols are more complex and in more than one time cycle (avartan). The svara vistar in lari and larguthava is slow like in alap, otherwise it becomes larlapet. More emphasis is given to the bol, than to the notes of a Raag, which serves to carry the bol. Here are two phrases of pakhawaj,
1. kit tak dhit, dhit tak kit dhit, tit kit kit tak, dhit kit tak, dhuma kit, tak dhuma kit, tak tak dhuma kit, dhuma kit tak,
dhuma kit tak, dhum kit tak. (I-I, I-I-, I-I-, I-I, VI, IVI, I-VI,VI-, VI-, VI-)
2. tit kit dhit, tet tet ghe ghe, to to ghe, ghe dim, tit kat dha, tak dhuma kit tak, dhuma kit tak dha, dim dim tak dha, dim tak dha,
dim tak. (I-I, I-VV, I-V, VI, I-V, IVI-, VI-V, VVIV, VIV, VI)
From these phrases the rhythmic framework can be used as a structure to compose bols, just as in lari.
3+4+4+3+2+3+4+3+3+3
IVI, VVI-, VIVI, VVI, VI, VIV, IVI-, VI-, VI-, VI-
3+4+3+2+3+4+4+4+3+2
I••-V, I•-I•-V, I•-I•-, V•, VI••-, VI•-I•-, VI•-I•-, VVI••-, V•-V, •-V
Larlapet
Lapet means to entwine or wrap. This is another portmanteau word, in which a garland of rhythmic phrases (lari or larguthava) is entwined (lapet) with the notes of a Raag. In other word, lari or larguthava bols are played along with guthava taans. Lari, larguthava, and larlapet are to be played in the drut section of alap or with fast gat (Reza-Khani).
SRG,SRG,SRSG,RGRS,GRS
IVI, VVI, IVVV, IV I -, IVV (or you can use all diri) but if the tempo is very fast, using da or ra makes the pattern easier.
Here is a link to a translation from the alap section in Bimalakanta Roychaudhuri's book, Dictionary of Hindustani Classical Music,
http://camitava.0catch.com/articles/stages.htm,
He agrees with these definitions, except for Guthava, maybe a Gharana thing? Which does not make an appearance in the book. Enjoy!
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

jaysitar22
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:00 pm

More exercises and ideas from "techniques", edited and augmented by me, if anybody has any examples of Kattar bols or Kattar jhala, could you let me know? Kattar is a technique from pakhawaj says various sources, but with no examples.
Jhala
In jhala melody is played on the main string, with chickari alongside. Jhala is played in a time cycle at a fast tempo.
The default pattern is IcccIcccIcccIccc, but infinite variations are possible. The bol of Ravab is useful for reciting jhala patterns,
“Gha na na na”. The rhythms in the alamkar section can be used to compose patterns. Here are some patterns,
1.GnnnGnnnGnnnGnnn 2. GnnGnnGn
3.GnGn 4.GnnnGnGn
5.GnnGnnGnnnGnnGnnGn 6.GnnGnGnnGnnnGnGn
7.GnGnnGnnGnnGnnGn 8.GnnGnnGnnnGnnGnn
9.GnGnnGnnn 10.GnGnnGn
11.GnGnnGnGnn 12.GnGnGnnGnn
13.GnnGnGnnGn 14.GnnGnnGnGn
15.GnnGnGnGnn 16.GnGnnGnnGn
17. Gnnnnnn 18.GnnGnnGnnnGnnn
19.GnnGnnGnnGnnn 20.GnnGnnGnnGnnGnnn
*You can also practice jhala with bols as shown below,
21. IVI- cccc cccc cccc 22. VII- cccc cccc cccc
23. a) VVVV cccc cccc cccc b) VVVV VVVV cccc cccc c) VVVV VVVV VVVV cccc d) VVVV VVVV VVVV VVVV
*catching a chickari after a diri is difficult, but possible. You can add a da to make the pattern easier (VVVV Iccc) or (VVVI cccc)
*In ulta jhala the pattern is turned around cIII. The pattern (33334) would be cII cII cII cII cIII.
*Lari and jhala can be combined (33334) would become a) Ivc Ivc Ivc Ivc VVVc b) VIc IcV VIc VIc VVIc
or mix and match a rest with a chicakri, cVV IV• VIc VV• IVIc. The possibilities are endless.
Thonk jhala
This mode orginated with Ravab. In thonk jhala the musician strikes the top of the instrument on the outward stroke using phrases from Pakhawaj or Tabla, creating a loud percussive sound, while jhala is played as usual. On Sitar, Surbahar or Sarod, the top of the instrument is hit on the “ra” stroke. The rhythms from the jhala section can be used with “Gha” being the thok (T). More examples,
1. T•I- VVVV cccc cccc 2. TTI- VVVV cccc cccc 3.T•T• TVVV cccc cccc 4.VVT• cccc cccc cccc 5.TVVV cccc cccc cccc
6. a) VVVV Tccc cccc cccc b) VVVV VVVV Tccc cccc c) VVVV VVVV VVVV Tccc d) VVVV VVVV VVVV VVVV Tccc Tccc Tccc Tccc
Lari and Thok can also be combined, TVI,VVI,TVI,VVI,TVVI. Again, the variations are endless.
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

barend
Posts: 996
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:38 pm
Location: the netherlands

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by barend » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:07 am

Thanks. Very useful ideas!
What is the difference between the "-" sign and the "•" sign? Seems to me that they are bot rests? This is somewhat confusing.

For example here on the first four beats: 1. T•I- VVVV cccc cccc

jaysitar22
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:54 pm

Hi,
The (-) is a ra stroke
the dot is a rest (you could either have a silence or a chicari), the thonk jhala examples have sixteen beats, so each grouping is four beats. The jhala patterns can also be played as thonk jhala with a strike on the "Gha". Be careful with this technique though, it will scratch the sitar, I put a piece of cardboard on the pick guard to practice this.
In the lari section when there are two dots in a row, each beat is broken into two, so I can write a diri (V) across a beat or a ridi, hopefully that makes sense!
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

Bakersbites786
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by Bakersbites786 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:11 pm

Thank u so much for sharing this information. I for one am very grateful.

jaysitar22
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:21 pm

A few more thoughts and ideas...
Lari and larguthava were originally modes of playing Pakhawaj, which veena and rabab players adopted using the particular bols suited to the instrument.
Here is the definition of Kattar from Bimalkanta Roychaudhuri's book.
"Bols of Pakhawaj or Tabla that contain the bol "kat" are known as Kattar bols."
definition of kattar jhala
"Jhalas (usually thonk jhalas) that contain Kattar bols."
Other defintions from "A Concise Dictionary of Hindustani Music," by Ashok Ranade.
" In Pakhawaj jhala that uses sound syllables in abundance is kattar jhala" (jhala is played on Pakhwaj using the "Gha na na na" structure, I believe.)
"Lari in pakhawaj and tabla that employs the syllabic structure kattar is a kattar lari.
I bought "Solkattu Manual" by David Nelson a few months ago, and have been using the rhythms on Sitar. The book is in the Karnatic style, but the rhythms are really great! Here is how I am using it,
Exercise 2 (in a time cycle of 3)
ta•ki•ta•,ta ki ta, ta ki ta
IcIcIc,I-I,I-I
Then permutations of ta ki ta
a) ta ka •
b) ta • ka
c) • ta ka
So the original exercise with variation b
ta•ki•ta•, ta • ka,ta • ka ( I thought it was interesting that when this pattern is recited it sounds like kattar.) I don't know if this is kattar, but this technique is useful.
IcIcIc I • -,I • -, (or play a chicari on the rest)
The resulting jhalas can use the usual variation of technique using thonk, or lari
TcTcTc,I • -,I • -, or IcIcIc,T • I,T • I,
TcTcTc, I • V,I • V, etc.
the whole book can be used in this way, with the sitar mimicking mridangam compositions.
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

jaysitar22
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:05 am

Hi all,
Here is a link to sitar recordings of Mushtaq Ali Khan, http://theflowerraj.org/audio/sl1/musht ... ings-1.php
there are traditional Reza-khani gat and Maseet Khani gat renditions from a musicain of the Senia Gharana. I think the compositions from the Bandyopadhyaya are from this tradition.
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

Bakersbites786
Posts: 299
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by Bakersbites786 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:35 am

Thankyou so much for posting these paltas and Bol patterns.
Could u suggest a nice long tan in Bhimpalasi plz? Would be appreciated.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest