Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

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jaysitar22
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Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:03 am

I have a Sitar technique book called "Techniques of the Sitar," written by Shripad Bandyopadhyaya. He is the author of 10 books on Hindustani music, and according to his short bio in the book he is said to have studied with Ustad Allauddin Khan and S.N. Ratanjankar (noted vocalist). I am going to go through this book and record the music as written and add interpretation and ornamentation to it, my first ever public sitar recording is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_rdusor ... e=youtu.be it is a simple rendition of a Masit-Khani Gat with three Todas from the first chapter of the book.
In this book S.B. develops many ragas with detailed illustrations of the "twelve modes of the Saini Gharana"
1.Alap(Asthayi, Antara, Sanchari, Abhog) 2.Jod-Alap (bara-bari-ka-jor, lari-ka jor, and gamak-ka-jor, 3.Thonk jhala, 4.Jhala
5.Gat 6.Todas 7.Lari 8.Guthava 9.Lar-Guthava 10.Larlapetta 11.Kattar 12.Tar-paran, now it seems to me that this is the old traditional way of presenting a complete raga. The definitons of all these are present in this book but due to my inexperience I do not understand the explanations given, can you all enlighten me on what your understandings are of these modes and their proper executuion?
According to his descriptions of these gats these are classic Gats (Masit and Reza Khanis) of the Saini Gharana from artists of the early 20th century. There are also examples of Alaps, and later on ways to fully develop the more advanced Ragas. This book has really fascinated me to find who this guy was, what his sitar playing was like, and if these compositions are worth recording in a fully developed way. I personally really find myself liking these after a few play throughs but am open to your opinions (why you like them, what you don't like about them, or any other opinions) on these compositions, and if anyone knows more about who S. Bandyopadhyaya (1911-?)was please let me know, there is nothing on the internet about him! He also advocates using 2 fingers while ascending i.e. S1 R2 G1 m2 P1 D2 N1 S2 and the traditional one finger going down i.e. S2 N1 D1 P1 m1 G1 R1 S1. I have experimented with this and like this system coming from western musical instruments, I am wondering if anybody else has heard of this unorthodox way of playing, I will be using the traditional fingering system for these recording at my teachers urging, thanks and enjoy.

p.s. here is the Raag Yaman Masit-Khani Gat from the first chapter http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv8SqU8sjbg
Last edited by jaysitar22 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
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Hamletsghost
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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya?

Post by Hamletsghost » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:09 am

:D VERY NICE :D

Nice pacing ... Very nice gat. You're doing very well & you should be very happy with your 1st live performance. Keep up the good work.

Hamletsghost 8)
PEACE THRU MUSIC
Larry Darrell LIVES!

rono
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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by rono » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:12 pm

Both Allyn Miner and Stephen Slawek have, in their respective books, reasonably understandable explanations of the various modes mentioned in Sripada Bandyopadhyay's manual. His name shows up in lists of Allaudin Khan's students and his manual Sitar Marga appears to have been first published in 1937. A gat repository is a fine idea - perhaps adding the gat notation to your videos would make then even more useful. Best wishes for your project!

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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by Bakersbites786 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:22 am

Hi, Is this book still available to buy?
I can't seem to find any online book stores stocking this book.
I wouldn't mind buying this for reference material.
Last edited by Bakersbites786 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rono
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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by rono » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:01 am

I bought my copy from Harmony Books in Varanasi. They seem to have a copy in stock :
http://www.harmonybooksonline.com/BookD ... kKey=32267

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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by barend » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:11 am

jaysitar22 wrote: He also advocates using 2 fingers while ascending i.e. S1 R2 G1 m2 P1 D2 N1 S2 and the traditional one finger going down i.e. S2 N1 D1 P1 m1 G1 R1 S1. I have experimented with this and like this system coming from western musical instruments, I am wondering if anybody else has heard of this unorthodox way of playing,
Doesn't seem very logical to me. I can imagine 1 2 fingering for both up and down instead of the traditional 1 fingering but why a different fingering for ascending and descending? Can you give some more examples of this from the book?

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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by AllenDS » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:46 pm

When I searched for more information about this book I ran across the title "Sitār Mārg" by Shripad Bandyopadhyaya. Would this be the original title? Also, I assume it is not written in English. Just curious.

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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by g » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:18 pm

AllenDS wrote:When I searched for more information about this book I ran across the title "Sitār Mārg" by Shripad Bandyopadhyaya. Would this be the original title? Also, I assume it is not written in English. Just curious.

-Allen
This book is written in english, though it is not the most readable at times i.e. occasional sentences don't make complete sense, which can sometime make a whole paragraph unreadable if it is a crucial part.
I think he has written quite a few books search

Code: Select all

inauthor:"Shripada Bandyopādhyāya"
into google books to see previews
Bakersbites786 wrote:Hi, Is this book still available to buy?
I can't seem to find any online book stores stocking this book.
I would mind buy this for reference material.
There are many retailers online, I think I got mine from amazon - it said used in description but it was brand new, shipped from india, got it within a week for £28 ish IIRC
barend wrote:
jaysitar22 wrote: He also advocates using 2 fingers while ascending i.e. S1 R2 G1 m2 P1 D2 N1 S2 and the traditional one finger going down i.e. S2 N1 D1 P1 m1 G1 R1 S1. I have experimented with this and like this system coming from western musical instruments, I am wondering if anybody else has heard of this unorthodox way of playing,
Doesn't seem very logical to me. I can imagine 1 2 fingering for both up and down instead of the traditional 1 fingering but why a different fingering for ascending and descending? Can you give some more examples of this from the book?
I don't like the two finger technique he mentions - it is not conducive to speed work, but everything else is pretty solid, especially the compositions.
I can't make any sense out of some of the alankars and practice palta he tries to write down though - the way the book is formatted is inadequate for what it could be.

Your mileage may vary.

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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by Bakersbites786 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:28 pm

Thanks g

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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by Lars » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:34 am

I've had this book for probably over 30 years now, once upon a time was not much more available than Ravi's book and this and a few others. It's pretty archaic, the fingering stuff doesn't make sense and it's full of slight errors due to translation and/or typos. Useful to a point sure, the authors other title 'Wisdom of Raga' is much more useful in my opinion.

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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by barend » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:09 am

I have heard from one of my former teachers that there were/are 'schools' using 1 2 fingerings up and down for fast taans and sargam/sapat. Can't remember exactly what it was. Anyone heard of this?

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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by rono » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:50 pm

AllenDS, the 1937 edition of "Sitar Marga" was published in Hindi in four volumes. I have not been able to find it in bookstores. It is listed in the catalogues of several libraries, though.

jaysitar22
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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:08 am

Here is a better quality video of the Rag Marwa Masit-khani gat, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I29eCEYnJtU ( more to come). What makes me interested about the 2 finger technique is that this book is all about the traditional Senia way of playing, whatever that means, S.B. apparently went through great pains to write this book with traditional gats, and all of the proper modes of a Raga, he says as they were explained to him by Allauddin Khan! It is curious that this book is all about tradition and he advocates using a non traditional fingering system. I am not saying that this way is better or anything but it just interests me to find out where this stems from, is it just a idiosyncrasy to his teaching or did he get this from another gharana, there are alot of unanswered questions with this book and its author that I want to try and unravel. Like I said before there is nothing on the internet about him. The more I delve into this book though, I think it is a goldmine of information that most musicians would not come into contact with otherwise, especially the gat composition and the defintions of the raga modes, errors and all.
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

jaysitar22
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Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:24 pm

(v I V I - I I -) bol pattern, just in case
Alahiya Bilawal
Asthayi: RR|3 G PP D N|x Ṡ Ṡ Ṡ ṠṠ|2 N DP D n|o P m G
Antara: PP|3 m Gm R S|x S GG m R|2 G PP D n|o P m G

Behag
Asthayi: SṆ|3 S mG P N|x Ṡ NṠ N P|2 G mm N P|o G m G
Manjh: PP|3 M Gm G S|x Ṇ SS G S|2 G mm N P|o G m G
Antara: PP|3 M PP SN Ṡ|x SĠ ṁṁ Ġ Ṡ|2 SN PP M P|o G m G

Khamach
Asthayi: SS|3 G mm P D|x N ṠṠ N Ṡ|2 G mm P D|o G m G
Manjh: PP|3 m Gm G S|x Ṇ SS G S|2 G mm P D|o G m G
Antara: mm|3 P DD N Ṡ|x N ṠṠ N Ṡ|2 G mm P m|o G R S

Desh
Asthayi: RG|3 S RR m P|x N ṠṠ N Ṡ|2 ̇n DD P m|o G R S
Manjh: mm|3 G RG Ṇ S|x ṃ P̣P̣ Ṇ S|2 R mm P m|o G R S
Antara: PP|3 m PP N Ṡ|x Ṙ ṠṠ N Ṡ|2 n DD P m|o G R S

Bhairav
Asthayi: dd|3 P mP G m|x d d P Pd|2 m Pr G m|o r r S
Manjh: mm|3 G rr S S|x ḍ ṆṆ S S|2 G mm d P|o r r S
Antara: mm|3 P dd N Ṡ|x ṙ ṠṠ N Ṡ|2 d PP m P|o r r S

Bhairavi
Asthayi: Sr|3 ṇ SS g m|x P P P Pd|2 m PP g m|o g r S
Antara: mm|2 P dd n Ṡ|o n d P Pd|3 m PP g m|x P nn d P|2 g mm P m|o g r S

Malkauns
Asthayi: SS|3 g mm d n|x Ṡ Ṡ Ṡ ṠṠ|2 n dm d n|o m g S
Manjh: mm|3 g SS ṇ S|x ṃ ḍḍ ṇ S|2 d gg m d|o m g S
Antara: mm|3 g mm d n|x Ṡ nd ġ Ṡ|2 d nn m d|o m g S

Kafi
Asthayi: PP|3 g Rg S R|x P P P nn|2 P DD m P|o g g R
Antara: RP|3 m PP g m|x R gg S R|2 ṇ SS R P|o g g R

Bhimpalasi
Asthayi: SR|3 ṇ SS g m|x P P P nn|2 D mP g m|o g R S
Manjh: mm|3 g RR ṇ S|x ṃ P̣P̣ ṇ S|2 g mm P m|o g R S
Antara: PP|3 m PP n Ṡ|x ġ ṘṘ n Ṡ|2 n PD m P|o g R S

Bageshree
Asthayi: mm|3 g RR ṇ S|x m m m DD|2 m gg D m|o g R S
Manjh: mm|3 g RR ṇ S|x ṃ ḌḌ ṇ S|2 g mm D m|o g R S
Antara: mm|3 g mm D n|x Ṡ ̇ġġ Ṙ Ṡ|2 D nn D m|o g R S

Brindavani Sarang
Asthayi: SR|3 Ṇ SS R m|x P P P nn|2 m PP R m|o R Ṇ S
Manjh: PP|3 m RR Ṇ S|x ṃ P̣P̣ Ṇ S|2 R PP m P|o m R S
Antara: RP|3 m PP N Ṡ|x Ṙ Ṗṁ N Ṡ|2 n PP m P|o m R S

Yaman
Asthayi: SṆ|3 S GR G M|x N DD P M|2 G GR GM|o G R S
Manjh: SṆ|3 S GR G M|x Ṃ ḌḌ Ṇ S|2 R GG P M|o G R S
Antara: RR|3 G MM D N|x M DD NṠ|2 D NN G M|o G R S

Bhupali
Asthayi: SG|3 R SḌ S R|x G G G RR|2 G PP D P|o G R S
Antara: PP|3 G PP D Ṡ|x Ġ ṘṘ D Ṡ|2 D PP G P|o G R S

Hamir
Asthayi: DN|3 P MP G m|x D D D NN|2 D NN D D |o D P M
Antara: PP|3 m Gm R S|x G mm D P|2 D ṠṠ Ṙ Ṡ|o N D P

Kedar
Asthayi: mm|3 R SR Ṇ NS|x m m m mm|2 M PP D P|o m R S
Antara: PP|3 M PP D P|x Ṡ ṁṁ Ṙ Ṡ|2 N DD P m|o R R S

Asaveri
Asthayi: SS|3 R mm P Ṡ|x n d P Pd|2 m PP R m|o g R S
Antara: mm|3 P dd Ṡ Ṡ|x ġ ṘṘ d Ṡ|2 n dd m P|o g R S

Darbari Kanhara
Asthayi: RR|3 S ṇS ḍ ṇ|x R R S RR|2 g mm P m|o g R S
Antara: PP|3 m PP d n|x Ṡ ṘṘ n Ṡ|2 d PP m P|o g R S

Marwa
Asthayi: DD|3 M DD G M|x D D D DD|2 M Gr G Mo G r S
Antara: MM|3 G rr N, S|x D, NN, r G|2 D MM G M|o G r S

Sohini
Asthayi: DD|3 M DG M D|x Ṡ ṙ Ṡ ṠṠ|2 N DG D M|o G r S
Antara: MM|3 G MM D N|x Ṡ ṙṙ N Ṡ|2 D NN D M|o G r S

Puriya Danashree
Asthayi: Pd|3 M PP M G|x P P P Pd|2 M PP d M|o G r S
Manjh: Mr|3 G rr Ṇ S|x Ṃ ḍḍ S S|2 d MM G M|o G r S
Antara: MM|3 G MM d d|x ṙ NN d P|2 M dd P M|o G r S

From the first chapter
" It may also be mentioned here that both types of Gats that are included here in this book are the traditional compositions which were current during the first half of the 20th century, the great masters like the late Ustad Barkat-Ullah Khan, Kukabh Khan, Karamet-Ullah Khan, Fida Hussain Khan, Imdad Khan, Inayat Khan, Amir Khan, Hamid Hussain Khan, Jhamman Sahib and Ustad Allah-Uddin Khan, and many others."

I've heard of some o these artists but not all, does anyone have any more information or recordings of these guys?
have you heard these gat compostions, also, what are your opinions on them? Are they ancient relics that should be forgotten or is there a place for them, kind of like "performance practice" in western music. All opinions welcome, There are more details (avaroha/ aroha, pakar, scale exercise, todas) in the book, but if I wrote all that down for yous guys I would be here for days.

Thanks
Jay
Last edited by jaysitar22 on Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

jaysitar22
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Shripad Bandyopadhyaya? "Techniques of Sitar"?

Post by jaysitar22 » Fri May 29, 2015 8:09 pm

hi all, Here are examples of guthava from the Bandyopadhyaya "Techniques of Sitar". The book says that this technique is used with fast gat, and that the anuvadi svaras are made attractive. Also, that guthava means to sew or knit, and that guthava is akin to Jor. I don't know exactly how these tans are to be used, but they work great as paltas on the frets or meend. If anyone knows more about the author of this book or this technique, can you please let me know?
2 notes .1.SR 2. RS 3.SSR 4.RRS 5.SRRS 6.RSSR or play as one phrase
3 notes: 1.SRG,SRG,SRSG,RGRS,GRS 2.RGS,RGS,RGRS,GRGS,RGS 3.GRS,GRS,GRGS,RGSR,SRG
4 notes
simple forms
1.SRGmGR,GmRG,SRmGRS 2.SRmGRS,SGRmGR,SRGm
3.SGRmGR,GmRmGR,GmRS 4.RSGRmG,RSGRmG,mGRS
complex forms
1.SGRm,SRmG,RGmG,SRGm 2.SRS,GRG,mGRG,mGRGRS
3.RSRGRG,mGm,GmRGSRS 4.SRSG,SmGR,RGSR,mGRS
compound forms
1.SRG,SRG,SRSG,SmGmRS 2.GRS,GRS,GRGS,RmGRGS
3.RGm,RGm,RGRm,GmRGRS 4.RSRGmGRG,mRGSmGRS
5.SRG,SRG,SRSG,RmGRSR,SRmGRGRS,GRmG,GSRS
6.GRS,GRS,GRGSRG,GSRS,GRS,GmGRGS,mGRS,GRS
7.RGm,RGm,RGRmGm,RGSR,mGRG,GRSR,SmGR,SGRS
8.mGR,GRS,RmG,SGR,SRGR,SRmG,RSRGSR,mGRGRS
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

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