Notation writer?

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pidluk
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Notation writer?

Postby pidluk » Wed May 15, 2013 5:56 pm

Hi,
OK, now in my 3rd month of training which is going great. It is like a drug playing the sitar..
My question to you wonderful people here , my teacher has given me a homework to create a raga with the with the notes that she has supplied mainly sounds like a Bilawal thaat with audhav/audhav.
Is there a notation creator software or app that i can write my composition and play it ?
I need it in Indian not western with komal, shudh , chikarii etc.
How are you guys/gals doing it?

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Fil
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby Fil » Thu May 16, 2013 2:18 am

In the folk and trad Irish world there is a system called ABC where the notes are written in text from A to G (or a to g for the upper octave) with various simple punctuation used to detail note length, etc. I haven't used it much as I can sight read, but it does play the music in MIDI format from a simple ascii .txt file created on Windows Notepad, or whatever. It also creates the score in Western notation. Its all kinda neat, especially for beginners.

Some ABC player software will also play the tunes in true intonation or mean tone intonation, rather than even temperament.

I would not be surprised to find that there is an ICM version of this system available online (most ABC stuff for Irish trad is freeware, including the thousands of jigs and reels etc from the canon).

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nicneufeld
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby nicneufeld » Thu May 16, 2013 2:08 pm

pidluk wrote:...in my 3rd month of training...
...my teacher has given me a homework to create a raga...


:shock: Maybe we're talking at cross purposes to some extent, or using different terminology, but usually the concept of "creating" a new raga is a luxury afforded to the great masters, who invent new variations and such like. Besides, to create a new raag of audav/audav in bilawal thaat is going to be tricky if not impossible anyway, what combinations don't already exist as a raag anyway? :D Maybe I'm misunderstanding and they want you to create a composition in an existing raag? Or just are going for a more aggressive non-traditional approach and having you devise a new raag as an intellectual exercise? Would be kind of fun figuring out a new one using only shuddh and pentatonic ascent/descent.

Anyway, for notation, I just use my own sort of ascii notation, derived from what I've seen online. So a chromatic scale would be S r R g G m M P d D n N S'. Whether you use uppercase M for the shuddh or the tivra ma seems to be debatable, I've seen it both ways. I got used to using it for tivra ma. I then add a following apostrophe to denote the upper octave and a preceding apostrophe to denote lower octaves. As in, for Yaman, 'N R G M D N S'. For chikari strikes I usually use a 'x', some people use a 'c'. It's very difficult to denote meend and ornaments properly but I use slashes, as in R/G or 'D/S\'N. And if there's a quavering sort of ornament, N~ or something like that. Rhythm is trickier with my method and developed only out of necessity to log what I've been taught, so its not worth even trying to convey. These methods aren't really a good way of conveying a composition...what they are to me is a memory jogging device...if I personally forget how a composition goes, this will remind me, and my mind will fill in the blanks of the details (subtle rhythm things or ornaments) as I go. It's not like Western music which can be more perfectly captured in staff notation.

Unfortunately there's no standard and you'll have to kind of figure out a system that works for you. I just use what works for me, and I'd never expect anyone else to be able to read it accurately. Like I said, its just a great way to make sure that the wonderful compositions my teacher has given me don't get lost in the leaky bucket of my mind.

Edit:

Did a little math and came up with all pentatonic combinations in bilawal...there's actually a decent number of possibilities:

S m P D N
?

S G P D N
malavmanjari (not heard of this one, just saw it defined somewhere as such)

S R P D N
?

S G m D N
Bhinna Shadja

S R m D N
?

S R G D N
shuklabilawal?? (questionable)

S G m D N
Jogwanti

S R m P N
Salang

S R G P N
Hamsadhwani

S R G m N
?

S G m P D
Nagasvaravali (Carnatic)

S R m P D
Durga

S R G P D
Bhupali

S R G m D
?

S R G m P
?
Last edited by nicneufeld on Thu May 16, 2013 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DonovanJaymz
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby DonovanJaymz » Thu May 16, 2013 2:11 pm

To my knowledge, there is still no such app.

Try contacting the folks over at Swarsystems (http://www.swarsystems.com/) or SwarGanga (https://www.swarganga.org/). Perhaps if enough people request it, one of them will make an Indian notation app for PC or iOS. No developer is going to spend time making such an app unless enough people demonstrate a need and willingness to pay for it. I take my iPad to my sitar lessons as my tuner, audio recorder, and note taker. It'd be great if I could take down Sargam notation on it too.

I'd encourage anyone who wants to have such an app to contact SwarSystems or the iOS developer at Swargana. I made my request this morning. It can't hurt to ask :-)

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AllenDS
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby AllenDS » Fri May 17, 2013 3:56 am

Of course, there's always Excel! :o :shock: :lol:

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OM GUY
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby OM GUY » Fri May 17, 2013 4:47 am

Frankly, in my short history, I've never heard of a 3rd month student being asked to create anything. Some teachers won't even permit you to tune your sitar, at first. ( which kinda sounds silly to me...but what do I know.. :roll: ).

If a raag takes years to master, and months to master the proper hand techniques, etc., it doesn't seem at all rational to attempt to create or re-arrange a raag as a beginner.

At 3 months I was just getting used to the mizrab, the pain in my hands and freaking out about changing strings, let alone dicking around with time honoured raags. :wink:
Let's hope 2016 is less violent and that people discover the soothing influence of ICM. Hari OM!

theprosperone
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby theprosperone » Fri May 17, 2013 3:49 pm

Maybe this is an exercise a teacher is using to help new students even understand what a raga really is? I mean, its not like this guy said he was going to publish his raga and try to get it accepted into Hindustani traditions, jeeez. :lol:

After hearing people argue here over what is and isn't a raga, this seems like an exercise many could have benefited from when initially trying to understand exactly what a raga is. There is nothing wrong with experimenting when trying to understand something new and this seems like a fun little homework assignment. Maybe he'll come back with something and the teacher will show him its already a raga and explain why and then show him more ragas that arise from the very same group of notes they gave him? There could be lots to learn in such an exercise as long as the student understands it is simply that, a fun little exercise to help understand things better.


As for the writing, someone here developed a font you could download and use as well. I believe if you use the forums search function and search font, you'll probably be able to find it. Best of luck!

pidluk
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby pidluk » Fri May 17, 2013 6:22 pm

I think my explanation of creating a raga went a little overboard , my interpretation of a raga was a melody to be created with some notations the teacher had given me. The purpose was to listen to the different sounds, finger placements, understand and alaap, tora etc. it was an exercise to understand flow of music in harmony. This was to understand what the components of a raga is. I am creating no masterpiece and if Om Guy took 3 months to figure out the mizrab then maybe that was your phase and your training, to each his own :wink: .
I am practicing about an average 2 hours a day with a weekly lesson one on one.The teacher has a set curriculum and as long as i meet the curriculum then who is to say what can be taught in 2, 3, and so on months.
I am still weak at tora (sp) and my jump from a slow to fast is still questionable since my brain and my fingers are not in sync. :lol:
The teacher knows my weak points and have given some excercises to practice but i would like to know if you have some methods.

I was given these notations : SA,RE, GA, PA , DA, NI with Ma obsolete. PA and DA can used in lower ,SA, RE GA can be used in upper .
The reason i posted this is i have interest in learning and also wanted to know if there was a notation writer which i could use which most of you non bashers have replied.(thank you). I was replied to by swarshala but seems like an expensive software.

dhatitdha
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby dhatitdha » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:50 pm


Lars
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Re: Notation writer?

Postby Lars » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:33 pm

pidluk wrote:Hi,
OK, now in my 3rd month of training which is going great. It is like a drug playing the sitar..
My question to you wonderful people here , my teacher has given me a homework to create a raga with the with the notes that she has supplied mainly sounds like a Bilawal thaat with audhav/audhav.
Is there a notation creator software or app that i can write my composition and play it ?
I need it in Indian not western with komal, shudh , chikarii etc.
How are you guys/gals doing it?


https://sargamdev.wordpress.com/2015/04 ... -update-4/

It's still in development but works well, I don't know if he's currently working on it now as there wasn't much interest but it does what you want.

Lars
http://www.raincitymusic.com


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