Help buying this Surbahar

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Winemaker
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Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Winemaker » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:55 am

Hello, I know you can't tell much how this instrument is just by pictures but since its a very expensive instrument I need to know if its a good quality Surbahar. There arent many offers in my country but I can wait to import one from India, but if this one is good Ill probably buy it.

Here are some pictures.
(Pictures have changed it happened to not be the actual instrument so, see below in page 2 to see the actual instrument pictures)
http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA ... ancham-_JM

I hope you can help me.

Namaste
Last edited by Winemaker on Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

coyootie
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby coyootie » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:58 am

what country is this surbahar being sold in ? it is unbelievable someone is pricing this at 25 thousand dollars?? it is made by Mohammed Waseem Sitarmaker in Miraj, go to his website and deal directly with him if you would like a surbahar of this design.I have not personally played his instruments but surely you can find musicians who have bought from him and they can give you their opinions.

Winemaker
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Winemaker » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:43 am

coyootie wrote:what country is this surbahar being sold in ? it is unbelievable someone is pricing this at 25 thousand dollars?? it is made by Mohammed Waseem Sitarmaker in Miraj, go to his website and deal directly with him if you would like a surbahar of this design.I have not personally played his instruments but surely you can find musicians who have bought from him and they can give you their opinions.


Hello and thanks a lot, it cost around 2000 dollars, its In argentinian pesos. You think its reasonable price?

Winemaker
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Winemaker » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:38 am

If anyone got an opinion about the Surbahars made by Mohammed Waseem it will be very appreciated. Since its a very expensive instrument around 1800/2000dlls I must make sure they are good.

Also does the uppper/second tumba/resonator really matters in Surbahars? I'm not sure why some of them have it and others not.

Thanks a lot.

Namaste

Bakersbites786
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Bakersbites786 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:30 pm

Hi Winemaker.
Waseem's instruments are good, but will need tweaking of the jawari/ bridge to suit your taste of sound. A friend brought a surbahar about a year ago and turned out to be a great instrument.

I personally don't know anything about surbahars so can't make recommendations. I brought a sitar a few months back which was a fine instrument currently being played by a friend to break it in for me.

I think U should manage around 1300$ to 1500$ direct from Waseem with choice aesthetic detail. Good luck.

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nicneufeld
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby nicneufeld » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:56 pm

Winemaker wrote:Also does the uppper/second tumba/resonator really matters in Surbahars? I'm not sure why some of them have it and others not.


That's an oft-debated point around here for sitars as well as surbahars. I think it probably depends more on the specific instrument...ie., a certain sitar/surbahar may have a richer "3D" resonance with the upper tumba mounted, but many, well, you can't tell a difference and it just affects balance and gives you a built-in stand, from what I've heard. All mine (sitars and surbahar) have lacked them and I haven't particularly missed it. In the gharana which I learn from, they are pretty uncommon. I'm not sure I've ever seen Ustad Imrat Khan-saheb with an upper tumba on a surbahar, but here's one of his father, Ust. Enayat Khan, probably in the 1920s or 30s:
Image

I wouldn't stress out about it, anyway! A lot of things will be vastly more important to the sound than an upper tumba, in the end...

Winemaker
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Winemaker » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:16 pm

nicneufeld wrote:
Winemaker wrote:Also does the uppper/second tumba/resonator really matters in Surbahars? I'm not sure why some of them have it and others not.


That's an oft-debated point around here for sitars as well as surbahars. I think it probably depends more on the specific instrument...ie., a certain sitar/surbahar may have a richer "3D" resonance with the upper tumba mounted, but many, well, you can't tell a difference and it just affects balance and gives you a built-in stand, from what I've heard. All mine (sitars and surbahar) have lacked them and I haven't particularly missed it. In the gharana which I learn from, they are pretty uncommon. I'm not sure I've ever seen Ustad Imrat Khan-saheb with an upper tumba on a surbahar, but here's one of his father, Ust. Enayat Khan, probably in the 1920s or 30s:
Image

I wouldn't stress out about it, anyway! A lot of things will be vastly more important to the sound than an upper tumba, in the end...


Yes I have Heard you can not really tell the difference in surbahar but also heard that it really enhances the sound in sitar, anyways im not stressing for that. You aré right there are other more important parts to be aware of.

Thanks

Namaste

katyrow
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby katyrow » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:57 pm

I have a Waseem surbahar that is very similar to the one pictured. It is one of the best-sounding instruments I own. It was set up pretty well when it arrived. The sitar that I bought from him, however, required a lot of work to get it up to snuff and took a very long time to receive. The odd thing about the one you posted is that it is described as a "gandhar pancham" surbahar. Very strange. Even in the imdadkhani gharana going back many decades, surbahars have four playing strings. I'm not sure that there is such a thing as a gandhar pancham surbahar -- at least historically. I could be mistaken, of course. Maybe the description is wrong.

I've never played a surbahar with an upper tumba. These are big, heavy instruments to begin with, especially with Waseem's headstock. I wouldn't add an upper.

barend
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby barend » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:31 pm

katyrow wrote: The odd thing about the one you posted is that it is described as a "gandhar pancham" surbahar. Very strange. Even in the imdadkhani gharana going back many decades, surbahars have four playing strings. I'm not sure that there is such a thing as a gandhar pancham surbahar -- at least historically. I could be mistaken, of course. Maybe the description is wrong.


Yes I think the description is wrong. On the pictures it has the bass strings. I have never heard of a GP surbahar. Wouldn't make any sense because the whole purpose of a surbahar is to have that low register.

And yes, an upper tumba can easily make it neck heavy, especially on a surbahar I think. I never use my upper tumba on my sitar. It adds very little sound (only the stereo effect for the player himself) and puts the sitar out of balance.

This one looks really nice. But I hope it is set up well. It might need some work. I had the same problem as Katyrow is describing with a Waseem sitar.

Winemaker
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Winemaker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:45 am

[/quote]
barend wrote:
katyrow wrote: The odd thing about the one you posted is that it is described as a "gandhar pancham" surbahar. Very strange. Even in the imdadkhani gharana going back many decades, surbahars have four playing strings. I'm not sure that there is such a thing as a gandhar pancham surbahar -- at least historically. I could be mistaken, of course. Maybe the description is wrong.


Yes I think the description is wrong. On the pictures it has the bass strings. I have never heard of a GP surbahar. Wouldn't make any sense because the whole purpose of a surbahar is to have that low register.

And yes, an upper tumba can easily make it neck heavy, especially on a surbahar I think. I never use my upper tumba on my sitar. It adds very little sound (only the stereo effect for the player himself) and puts the sitar out of balance.

This one looks really nice. But I hope it is set up well. It might need some work. I had the same problem as Katyrow is describing with a Waseem sitar.


So I have been told that this Surbahar wasn't made by Waseem. The seller told me it was made by Nitai Babu from Varanasi. Have you heard from him?

Winemaker
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Winemaker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:47 am

coyootie wrote:what country is this surbahar being sold in ? it is unbelievable someone is pricing this at 25 thousand dollars?? it is made by Mohammed Waseem Sitarmaker in Miraj, go to his website and deal directly with him if you would like a surbahar of this design.I have not personally played his instruments but surely you can find musicians who have bought from him and they can give you their opinions.


The seller told me it was made by Nitai Babu in Varanasi, so now I'm not sure because I emailed waseem and the one he showed me had the same background carpet like the one in the pictures. But I guess the seller is not going to missinformate me. Have you heard from Nitai Babu? Are their instruments good?

katyrow
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby katyrow » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:55 am

The seller is mistaken. The person playing the surbahar in the fourth photo in the ad is Waseem.

There is a good maker in Varanasi named Nitai Chandra. His instruments are similar in appearance to Radhey's and look nothing like this surbahar.
Last edited by katyrow on Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Winemaker
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Winemaker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:00 am

katyrow wrote:The seller is mistaken. Waseem is playing the surbahar in the fourth photo in the ad.


Ok I appreciate this information very much, thanks a lot!

Winemaker
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby Winemaker » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:25 pm

katyrow wrote:The seller is mistaken. The person playing the surbahar in the fourth photo in the ad is Waseem.

There is a good maker in Varanasi named Nitai Chandra. His instruments are similar in appearance to Radhey's and look nothing like this surbahar.


The seller nows tell that the picture from Waseem is just in illustrative mode/only to show off, but the sitar he sells was actually made from Nitai. So if anyone got experience on his instruments i would aporeciate it, i dont know if a price from his surbahar is reason able around 1800 dlls, i know its on the expensive side but not many surbahars here in my country. I know a picture cannot tell the quality and sound of an instrument but it can help a bit .

Thanks in advance

Namaste

katyrow
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Re: Help buying this Surbahar

Postby katyrow » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:12 pm

Winemaker wrote: the sitar he sells was actually made from Nitai. So if anyone got experience on his instruments i would aporeciate it


Pushpraj Koshti has been seen playing a Nitai Chandra surbahar. The Nitai "pro" model is more expensive than Waseem's, and his "standard" is around the same price or perhaps a little higher that Waseem's. I've never played one, but they look to be very high quality. Sitarsencat, a very reputable retailer, sells them. But if your seller wants to sell you a Nitai Chandra, it ain't the one in the ad.


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