Sitar with no sympathetics

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katyrow
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Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by katyrow » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:29 pm

Opinions on age of this sitar? No tarabs. No tabli carving. Chikari peg mid-way up the neck, which I've rarely seen. Thanks.
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StVitus
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by StVitus » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:45 pm

I remember reading that sitars with no sympathetics are sold as student instruments in India.

StVitus
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by StVitus » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:50 pm

Ah, found more than I remembered in Chaudhuri’s Plucked Instruments of Northen India, p. 6. Chaudhuri says that this is an older style that was prevalent in the nineteenth century, prior the addition of sympathetic strings, perhaps by Imdad Khan.

StVitus
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by StVitus » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:55 pm

And Nad, p. 207, says of sitars that ”there are two basic types, the plain (sāda) used only by students, and the tarabdār (or tarafdār), the latter having 9 to 13 sympathetic strings…”

Sanjeeb
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by Sanjeeb » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:04 pm

I started learning on these types of sitars about 45 years ago in a small town in India. These were very common then.

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cwroyds
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by cwroyds » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:26 am

I love that style.
Sleek and incredibly simple.
I want to get a master maker to make me one like this, but with sympathetic strings.

These old student model designs owe more to the older style of sitar than our modern designs
I have a very ornate but much older sitar that shows where this came from.
This one has no sympathetic strings and the second chikari peg is half way up the neck, although it is not shown in the photos.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/carletonr ... 8815426686

StVitus
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by StVitus » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:56 am

cwroyds wrote:I love that style.
Sleek and incredibly simple.
I want to get a master maker to make me one like this, but with sympathetic strings.
Lars has one that’s pretty close: http://raincitymusic.com/mohanlalsharmasitar.htm

I watched a video about sitars by Rikhi Ram. AJ said most of the decorated raised areas are there to either affect sound or strengthen joints, so that might be why plain sitars are hard to find.

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cwroyds
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by cwroyds » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:19 am

Nope, that one ain't close enough. :)
I mean totally devoid of decoration like the one above.
I like the complete lack of decoration.

Oddly that one on Lar's website looks like they designed by referencing my teak Hiren Roy. :)
(I don't mean my actual Hiren Roy, but that style that came from Hiren Roy)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/carletonr ... 0484854523

katyrow
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by katyrow » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:09 pm

cwroyds wrote:Nope, that one ain't close enough. :)
I mean totally devoid of decoration like the one above.
In addition to being uber-munda, the one above is quite small at 48 inches long with a 12" tabli.

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cwroyds
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by cwroyds » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:32 pm

Yup, smaller sitars can have a beautiful delicate tone. I played a small RR Lahore style sitar that was small and it was delicate in tone but stunningly beautiful to listen to.

chrisnovice
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by chrisnovice » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:47 am

Here's a cute picture of a young Ravi Shankar playing a similar instrument.
Ravi-Shankar-1a.jpg
Ravi-Shankar-1a.jpg (14.17 KiB) Viewed 369 times

Lars
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by Lars » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:34 pm

cwroyds wrote:Nope, that one ain't close enough. :)
I mean totally devoid of decoration like the one above.
I like the complete lack of decoration.

Oddly that one on Lar's website looks like they designed by referencing my teak Hiren Roy. :)
(I don't mean my actual Hiren Roy, but that style that came from Hiren Roy)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/carletonr ... 0484854523
That style of carving has been around for many years, Mohan Lal was making them long before yours was made. These structures made by the Halder family who ML trained in the 60's to do work for Radha Krishna (his uncle) and the other big makers. Yours looks quite nice, the tabli shape is excellent, the penwork style is more HR oriented as mine is that way too but maybe a few years older. You'll notice the changes in the designs over the generations as the craftsmen come and go, it's more their designs actually than the maker who is only checking the tabli and thicknesses and fitting them. They'll give a general idea of the style and carving and then it gets farmed out and if it's popular it becomes more available in different variations.

Lars
http://www.raincitymusic.com

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cwroyds
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Re: Sitar with no sympathetics

Post by cwroyds » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:26 am

I wish there was a sitar encyclopedia, which sections on each maker, and a through exploration of the designs through the decades. I have the book on Kanai Lal, and it is awesome. I just wish there was one for the wider sitar design/making world.
I love all the different designs and styles.

That Mohan Lal has a beautiful piece of wood for the tabli.
It is very striking.

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