Komal Rishab Asavari - Samvadi in the hot seat

All matters relating to the Dhrupad, except those covered by the other boards. This also includes Seni Rabab, Sursringar or any other instrument when played in a dhrupad style.

Moderators: povster, s1owpoke, cabernethy, coughcapkittykat

didier_arno
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:41 pm
Location: france
Contact:

Komal Rishab Asavari - Samvadi in the hot seat

Postby didier_arno » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:45 pm

Hello,

Trying to unveil the characteristic of Komal Rishab Asavari.
I find that the komal G is defined as Samvadi.

A thing that i completely cannot hear nowhere and neither feel in my practice.

As i'm not in Khyal, but in Dhrupad, i'm asking myself if this is a typical Dhrupad feature for Asavari, or if i don't understand anything to this Râga.

If someone is able to clear that for me, please receive in advance my thankful regards.

Thks

Arnaud

Christianamr
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:45 am
Location: Vienna , Austria .

Re: Komal Rishab Asavari - Samvadi in the hot seat

Postby Christianamr » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:10 pm

Some thoughts about the samvadi in Komal Rishabh Asawari :
There are 2 things to take into consideration :
1 ) The conventions adopted by musicologists when defining vadi/samvadi .
2 ) The concept of Nyas swar ( resting note )

1) I am aware of the fact that the interval prefered by musicologists betweem vadi and samvadi is a perfect fourth .
As a starting point , from my practical experience I have heard that the vadi komal dha is prominently featured in the recordings of Asawari . That seems to be in line with convention .
Now , I don´t hear much komal ga either . Maybe it is possible that the musicologists have taken ga , because it is a perfect fourth below komal dha ...
Maybe you could find some more detailed info in the older books of the renowned musicologists like Bhatkhande etc
...

2) The concept of Nyasa swara takes into consideration the notes on which to rest , or stay for a longer time :

http://www.parrikar.org/hindustani/asavari/
The dhaivat and pancham are locations of repose (nyasa bahutva). The gandhar is also a nyasa swara but less so than P and d.


So we see that while d is a nyas swar besides being vadi , P is more prominent than g , although g might be samvadi . But P as a nyas swar is given more prominence .

That was the essential outline .
Now some additional notes :

- Concerning vadi/samvadi , there have been shifts of importance through the passing of the decades : As the ragas morph with time , so do their characteristics .
Take for example Bhairavi , which is not so far away from K R Asawari :

Parrikar :
Bhairavi
The nyasa swaras are S, g and P; in addition, M and d are often sought for elongation. Care has to be observed in the treatment of d so as to keep Asavari anga at bay. As to the vadi, there is no prevailing consensus. Traditionally, M has been considered for the role but in recent times the accent has shifted to other swaras. For instance, Ramashreya Jha “Ramrang” argues in his classic work Abhinava Geetanjali that d and G are the vadi and samvadi, respectively. These differences in outlook notwithstanding, there is no mistaking the core of Bhairavi.


I have even seen other people put P/S´as vadi/samvadi for Bhairavi . So maybe there are people out there who might propose another samvadi for K R Asawari , as some have done with Bhairavi , but I am not aware of that .

The other accepted consonance of vadi/samvadi is the perfect fifth . But sometimes today´s practice reveals crass departures from these conventions : Take Marwa , which in today´s practice takes komal re and shuddh dhaivat as vadi/samvadi .... ( very far from perfect fourth or fifth )

- Concerning the nyasa swaras of Asawari , I decided to listen again to the speech of Ramashreya Jha “Ramrang” given on the link to the Parrikar-site : I don´t understand enough Hindi ( maybe only 3-4 % ) , but there is a small part of his lecture where he talks about the nyasa swaras and the samvadi . If I am not mistaken , I think he mentions Sa as another nyas swar besides d and P .
So maybe even Sa is given more prominence than ga ?
I believe to hear some technical terms which are not written in the text : purna-nyasa , upa-nyasa , addha-nyasa ? ( Maybe different kind of nyasa-swaras according to their importance ? )
Maybe someone conversant with Hindi-Bhasha can confirm this part of the speech by Ramashreya Jha “Ramrang” .
Last edited by Christianamr on Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
सहस्रनाम ततुलयम राम नाम वरानने |
Sahasranāma tat tulyam Rāma nāma Varānane .

User avatar
westsea
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:50 am
Location: West Seattle

Re: Komal Rishab Asavari - Samvadi in the hot seat

Postby westsea » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:37 am

Maybe the liner notes from the Makar recording of Ustad Shamsuddin Faridi's CD,
'The Tradition Of Dhrupad On Been' will give added information...

RagaKomalRishabhAsavariNotes.jpg
RagaKomalRishabhAsavariNotes.jpg (207.85 KiB) Viewed 991 times

didier_arno
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:41 pm
Location: france
Contact:

Re: Komal Rishab Asavari - Samvadi in the hot seat

Postby didier_arno » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:36 pm

Thanks to you both !!

In fact i see that we all are in the same situation about this Samvadi problem, isn't it ?
The basic explanation my first teacher gave me when i began to ask what's Vadi and Samvadi, is that Vadi is THE prominent note of the Râga and Samvadi is Serving, means secondary most important note of the Râga, and that what it means in practical view, is that they're both the most played notes.
Technically this the case for Yaman : V:ni S:Ga - These two vadi samvadi, are clearly what they're meant to be for me in practice.

It Seems logical to me that a Vadi or Samvadi note Should be in some way a Nyasa note, at least a note that can be played a lot, otherwise it make nonsense to call it Vadi (Coming from sanskirt VAK- Speech) if it doesn't speech...

But when i say i feel we're in the same position, is that everywhere including the booklet, you post... we see Ga as samvadi, but in listening to the râga and in reading the Parrikar's article, and other interpretation, we could hear that Ga is not (unless in actual K R Asavari) the samvadi svara.

Or..., and that's why i'm asking, i miss what is vadi samvadi.

Christianamr, this convention you're talking about is interesting to me, because, like a lot of thing i read about classical indian music,it seems to me that sometimes the theories want to remain on their own, without anything but a far connection with the real practice of the music itself.
Like for this case the nonsense (at least for me) of naming the Samvadi G n Ko.Ris.Asavari.

I have one more question to you, in listening to the Râga for example the faridi desai's one, what naturally comes to your mind as the Samvadi svara ?

I'm really interested in your answer ...

Thanks again to you both !!
have a nice and joyful year 2013 !


Return to “DHRUPAD & RUDRA VINA”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest