Basic ICM Concepts

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Christianamr
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by Christianamr » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:40 am

I just stumbled upon the term " Samprakirti Raag " , which is used at this website :

http://www.sangeetvidhyalaya.com/Indian ... ssons.html

For example for Asawari they put Jaunpuri and Darbari as Samprakirti ragas , for Bageshri they put Bhimpalasi ...
So I am not exactly sure what they mean by this term exactly . Maybe they mean ragas with the same notes , or pertaining to the same thaat or whatever , but probably not pertaining to te same raagang or family . ( Bhimpalasi has not much connexion with Bageshree except for the thaat ... )
I find the ragas included under the heading " Similar ragas " in Oceanofragas to have more connection with the given raga ...

On a sidenote , I thought that the term written as " Samprakriti " would be more logical , and indeed I found some other sites where the term is mentioned with this orthography .
सहस्रनाम ततुलयम राम नाम वरानने |
Sahasranāma tat tulyam Rāma nāma Varānane .

Christianamr
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by Christianamr » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:56 pm

A term that Parrikar uses often :

langhan alpatva = skipped
Raga Jaunpuri

This raga is very close in spirit and substance to the R-only Asavari so much so that some musicians (for instance, Omkarnath Thakur) do not acknowledge any difference between the two. In recent times Jaunpuri’s dominance on the concert stage has virtually extinguished the shuddha rishab Asavari. A widely accepted point of departure in Jaunpuri concerns the komal nishad in arohi sancharis. Whereas in Asavari n is langhan alpatva (skipped) en route to the shadaj, that stipulation is relaxed in Jaunpuri. Still other minor areas of independence from Asavari are suggested, such as a higher weight for P over d. As in the shuddha rishab Asavari, R receives a pronounced grace of S. Whatever the case, Jaunpuri (and the ragas to follow) deeply embodies the Asavari-anga. A sample chalan is formulated:
सहस्रनाम ततुलयम राम नाम वरानने |
Sahasranāma tat tulyam Rāma nāma Varānane .

Christianamr
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by Christianamr » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:51 pm

Parrikar kahate hain :

sthira = unoscillated
The key idea above – and every Sarang wears it on its sleeve – is the treatment accorded to rishab. The R here is always sthira – i.e. unoscillated, not andolita - and independent. It is the vadi, and assumes the role of nyasa swara in both the ascending (arohi) and descending (avarohi) movements.
सहस्रनाम ततुलयम राम नाम वरानने |
Sahasranāma tat tulyam Rāma nāma Varānane .

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Kirya
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by Kirya » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:34 am

This is another site that provides many descriptions and explanations of ICM lingo

http://www.surgyan.com/theoretical.htm

The have explanations for all of the following:

Indian Classical Music
Hindustani Classical Music
40 Principals Of Hindustani Classical Music
Aakar
Aaroh
Alankar
Alap
Anuvadi Swar
Ashray Raag
Avroh
Chaiti
Bandish
Dadra
Dhrupad
Drut Khayal
Importance Of Vadi Swar In A Raag
Jaati
Kajri
Lakshan Geet
Lay
Madhya Lay Khayal
Madhya Saptak
Mandra Saptak
Matra
Meend
Naad
Pakad
Purv Raag
Purvangvadi Raag
Raag
Raagmala
Raag Difference
Samay (Time)
Samvadi Swar
Saptak
Sargam
Shruti
Shudh Swar
Swar
Taal
Taan
Taar Saptak
Tappa
Tarana
Thaat
Thumri
Uttar Raag
Uttrangvadi Raag
Vadi Swar
Vakra Swar
Varna (वर्ण)
Vikrut Swar
Vilambit Khayal
Vivadi Swar
Kirya
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by Kirya » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:58 pm

This is a link to a very comprehensive list of terms in both Hindustani and Carnatic music

http://www.p-sarkar.com/Glossary%20of%2 ... 0music.htm
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by Kirya » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:14 pm

This site provides a very useful overview of Raga structure for instrumentalists

http://india.tilos.hu/english_ragarend.html many of the elements defined below are explained with sound samples as well.

The raga has two main parts, in which there are further subparts (in bold) and other components (not in bold):
alap

alap
mohra
jor
jhala
gat vilambit gat
tabla solo
tihai
chhand
layakari
tankari
madhya gat
drut gat
jhala
jhala closing phrase
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by Kirya » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:21 pm

The Tilos site also provides a glossary

glossary of terms of Indian performing arts

ālāp
alap
[आलाप - hindi] invocation, the first three movements of the raga, played or sung in solo, (ālāp, jor, jhālā); as well as the name of the first, typically slow, rhythmless movement, which precisely follows the traits of raga in every detail (typical phrases, vādī and samvādī, ārohana and āvarohana, rasa etc.)

ārohana
[आरोहण] ascending (scale)

ati drut
very fast (tempo)

audava
[औडव] a scale of five notes, one of the three jātis

āvarohana
[अवरोहण] descending (scale)

bandish
vocal composition (set to a tala), which can be played on an instrument

bhajan
Hindu religious song and the way of performance related to it

bilawāl
[बीलवाल] scale, containing only shuddha, that is natural notes, one of the ten thāts.

bīnkar
[बीनकार] someone who plays the bīn (rudra-vina) , as well as the name of a gharānā , originating from Miyan Tansen

bol
[बोल] 'syllable', short syllables denoting the traits (place and pitch) of the beats of the tabla , which help in memorizing the complicated compositions

dhamār
[धमार] composition with strict rhythm (14 bars) used in the style of dhrupad

dhrupad
[धुपद] compositional form which obtained its present form in the 14th-15th century AD, the stylistic origins of which go back to Vedic times. Four of its forms endured till the last century: dagar, gauhar, khandar, nauhar

drut
fast (tempo)

gat
[गत] instrumental composition with strict rhythm

gharānā
[घराना] a special way of performance; normally a family tradition [ghar – ‘house’], which has endured in the guru-shishya parampara/master-disciple-relation at least for three generations.

ghazal
Urdu, or Farsi romantic song


jāti
[जाति] system of classification: the classification of the raga according to the length of the ascending and descending scale: sampūrna – seven-note scale, shādava – six-note scale, audava – five-note scale. Eg.: sampūrna-shādava, the ascending scale is a seven, the descending scale is a six-note scale.

jhālā
[झाला] closing movement of the alap and also of the raga with special rhythm, following the jor (closing the ālāp), and conlcuding the gat respectively.

jor
[जोड] the second movement of the raga, following the ālāp, characterized by pulsating rhythm and increasing tempo

kathak
[कथक] North Indian dance using complex footwork (using the feet as a rhythmical instrument) and sometimes telling a story. [katha – to tell a story]

khālī
[खाली] the second most important point of the tala, or the start of the “empty”, unstressed beats, showing by waving hand.

khyāl
[खयाल] one of the most important, richly ornamented singing style of Hindustani Classical Music, which was probably invented by Amir Khusro (1253-1325), a Sufi of Turkish origin, from the elements of Persian (qaul and qawwali) and Indian (dhrupad) music.

khyāliya
[खयालीय] khyāl singer

komal
[कोमल] the flattening of the natural note by half a note, denoted by an underline: R, G, D, N

madhya
medium (tempo)

matra
metric in tala

mīnd or meend
[मींड] the “bending” between the notes which is one of the most important bearers of the emotional essence of the raga

mohrā
[मोहरा] short melody pattern separating the units of the ālāp

qawwali
religious Sufi song, the purpose of which is to spread the doctrine of the Muslim religion, the deepening of religious belief, and the experiencing of the unity with Allah

Pandit
the title of an honourable, educated man in Hindu culture, the denomination of such a master in music, whose student is already a recognized performer, since from a traditional point of view, who is important is the person who helps carry on the tradition, no matter what unique level of realization is achieved by an individual.

rāg = raag
rāga [रागः – sanskrit], rāg [राग - hindi] the form of performance of Indian Classical Music, characterized by improvization in an increasingly intricate system of rules. Each raga has its own unique character, different from other ragas.

rasa
[रस] 'taste' – the emotional essence of the raga

sam
[सम] the main stress of the tala, which is normally the first beat of the tala, showing by clapping hand

sampūrna
[संपूर्ण] a scale of seven notes, one of the three jātis

samvādī
[संमवादी] the second most important note of the rāga, the “minister”, which is the most often played note after the vādī

saptaka
an octave; its seven basic notes are the shadja, rishaba, gāndhārva, madhya, panchama, dhaivata, nishāda (S, R, G, M, P, D, N)

shādava
[षाडव] a scale of six notes, one of the three jātis

shruti
the smallest audible interval, the significance of which typically lies in the ornamentation (mīnd etc.), through which the main notes of a raga sound in a unique way. In Indian music, there are 22 different shrutis in an octave.

shuddha
the denotation of the seven unmodified basic notes of an octave (shuddha rishaba, etc.)

tāl taala
tāla [तालः - sanskrit], tāl [ताल - hindi] 'clap' – rhythmic cycle, which is minimum 3 maximum 108 beats long.

tān taan
[तान] melodic form in the gat movement, which can be heard between the bandish. If Indian Classical Music is a musical language, then tān is the sentence.

tappa
originated from the folksongs of Punjabi Muslim cameldrovers, a fast, vocal and instrumental style with very rich ornamentation and firm rhythm.

thāt thaat
[ठाट] a classification system, the idea of which is the classification of the raga under one of the ten thāts, that is one of the ten basic scales. These are: bilawāl, khamaj, kafi, bhairav, asawari, bhairavi, kalyan, marwa, purvi, todi (based on the six-volume book of Vishnu Nārayān Bhātkhande (1860-1936), Hindustani Sangeet Paddhati Kramik Pustak Mālikā, published in 1939.)

thumri
[ठुमरी] a so called “light”, romantic performing style, the system of which is freer than that of the raga’s, originating from the 19th century, the text of which is always depicting the romantic episodes of Krishna’s life.

tihāi
[तिहाई] a phrase, repeated three times, the last note of which generally arrives on the sam, that is, on the first bar of the tala. One of the most typical elements of Indian Classical Music.

Ustad
The Urdu denomination of a guru, mostly used by Muslims, generally, the title of an honoured, educated man.

vādī
[वादी] the most important note of the raga, the “king”, which is the most often heard note in the raga.

vilambit
[विलमबित] slow (tempo)
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jaan e kharabat
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by jaan e kharabat » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:03 pm

Kirya wrote:This site provides a very useful overview of Raga structure for instrumentalists

http://india.tilos.hu/english_ragarend.html many of the elements defined below are explained with sound samples as well.

The raga has two main parts, in which there are further subparts (in bold) and other components (not in bold):
No, the raga doesn't have two parts. A presentation of Hindustani music may have one, two, three, four, or more parts, depending on how you slice and dice things, but the itself raga is a set of rules and ideas about melodic phrasing, it doesn't have 'parts' such that they must be delineated separately or in any sort of order.

I often read this erroneous interpretation from Western sources; they equate the format of the presentation with raga.
Last edited by jaan e kharabat on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?

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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by OM GUY » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:33 am

jaan e kharabat wrote:
Kirya wrote:This site provides a very useful overview of Raga structure for instrumentalists

http://india.tilos.hu/english_ragarend.html many of the elements defined below are explained with sound samples as well.

The raga has two main parts, in which there are further subparts (in bold) and other components (not in bold):
No, the raga doesn't have two parts. A presentation of Hindustani music may have one, two, three, four, or more parts, depending on how you slice and dice things, but the itself raga is a set of rules and ideas about melodic phrasing, it doesn't have 'parts' so that they must be delineated separately or in any sort of order.

I often read this erroneous interpretation from Western sources; they equate the format of the presentation with raga.

Alright then.... from the article outlined by Kirya:

" The raga has two main parts, in which there are further subparts (in bold) and other components :

alap alap
mohra
jor
jhala

gat vilambit gat
tabla solo
tihai
chhand
layakari
tankari
madhya gat
drut gat
jhala
jhala closing phrase

...... so....I'm a bit confused.... are these not 'parts' ? Please enlighten me, as I always thought they were, in fact, ' parts' within a raga.
Let's hope 2016 is less violent and that people discover the soothing influence of ICM. Hari OM!

jaan e kharabat
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by jaan e kharabat » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:00 am

As I said, they are parts within Hindustani music recitals, they are NOT parts of a raga. A raga can be conveyed through different forms of composition, e.g. ghazal, chaiti, khayal, gat, jor, jhala, asthai, antara, tan, etc. but these forms are not part of the raga itself, they are simply mediums for presenting a melody and in Indian music it happens that the basis of melodies are what are known as ragas.

The two concepts, i.e. form/compositional devices and raga, should not be conflated.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?

sitara86
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by sitara86 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:12 am

I don't know if I can agree with that interpretation of what a raag is. I don't think playing a bunch of taans or just a asthai represents a raag. It's the whole, all these different components that bring out the rasa of a raag. But I do agree that you can use different mediums, ghazals, etc to present a raag. Interesting topic, you have me thinking now!

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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by jaan e kharabat » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:18 am

sitara86 wrote:I don't know if I can agree with that interpretation of what a raag is. I don't think playing a bunch of taans or just a asthai represents a raag. It's the whole, all these different components that bring out the rasa of a raag. But I do agree that you can use different mediums, ghazals, etc to present a raag. Interesting topic, you have me thinking now!
I don't think you are disagreeing with me as I didn't say 'playing a bunch of tans or just an asthai represents a raag', quite the opposite.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?

sitara86
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by sitara86 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:39 am

"A raga can be conveyed through different forms of composition, e.g. ghazal, chaiti, khayal, gat, jor, jhala, asthai, antara, tan, etc. but these forms are not part of the raga itself"

I don't understand this sentence. How can a raga be conveyed through a gat, jor, jhala, etc? My confusion is you are saying these are not "parts" of a raag and yet you're are saying they can convey a raag. Are saying they can convey a raag individually or together. Because if its together, then wouldn't that be considered parts of a raag?

OM GUY
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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by OM GUY » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:34 am

I've spent the better part of the evening since my last post on this topic, researching " parts of a raga" online, especially Indian references so as not to shade the discussion from a western point of view. In that vein, I give you this from ' ragaculture.com ' :

A Technique of the Alap
Acharya Dr Chintamani Rath PhD
(Tauranga, 7 November 2008)



This article is a short guide for a student (particularly one of instrumental music) to supplement (not replace!) his/her study with a qualified teacher. The purpose of this article is to crystallise the process usually followed in creating a standard free flowing Poornanga Alap in any Raga.

The Alap is unique to Hindustani music. It is a fully imporvised form of music. It is a complete form and stands on its own right. Thus it is quite appropriate to present a full Alap in a concert without presenting Gat in the same Raga. Thus it is very common nowadays to come across an artiste who announces (or causes to be announced on his behalf) that he or she will present an Alap, Jod and Jhala in a certain Raga which will be followed by Vilambita and Drut Gat in a completely different Raga. This trend of presenting the Gat in a different raga was revived and made popular by Ravi Shankar.

Like all music (as distinct from noise – remember that a collection pretty notes, regardless of how prettily played, by themselves do not music make!), Alap has a fairly formalised framework of rules. This constitutes the "grammar", so to speak, of the Alap. There is a step by step approach to the creation of an Alap. Not following this "grammar" but meandering willy-nilly all over the place makes for bad music! Hopefully, this article will help the gentle student proceed along the right direction.

The first step is to understand the form or the structure of an Alap – to see the big picture and how its smaller parts cohese to make up the big picture. This article will restrict itself to the general structure of a standard present-day Alap, particularly Poornanga Alap (for the meaning of Alap and Poornanga Alap, including the difference between the its two broad types Svar-Alap and Rag-Alap, click here). After understanding the structure of the Alap, the next step is to understand how the structure may be used as a vehicle for Raga delineation, which is the essential purpose of the Alap.

Structure – the big picture:

The full Alap (i.e., Poornanga Alap) is also known as the Alap Jod Jhala, because it comprises three divisions, called the Alap, the Jod and the Jhala respectively and always performed in that order. Thus Alap here is used in two senses – one, it is the name of the total structure and two, it denotes that part of the total structure that is not the Jod or the Jhala. This is not as confusing as it may seem on first reading: the context usually makes it abundantly clear as to which sense of the term is in use.

The following chart details the contituents of an Alap and shows how it is structured:–

Structure of the Alap
Poornanga Alap
Alap Jod Jhala
Vilambita Laya Maddhya Laya Druta Laya Druta Laya
Sthayi Antara Sanchari Abhoga
punctuated with (i.e., episodes separated by) Moharaa (except in Antaraa) no Moharaa
without regular rhythmic pulse with regular rhythmic pulse
extent of a full vocal Alap in the Dhrupad tradition Instrumental extra


A Poornanga Alap has two broad sections:
The first section is devoid of a periodic rhythm. That is to say, this section does not have regularly occuring rhythmic beats (pulses). This section is called Alap. The features of this section are:


It is the elaboration of the Raga in Vilambita Laya, meaning slow speed


It has two parts:


The first part, called the Sthayi, is the delineation of the raga using notes lower than the high (Taara) Sa – i.e., using notes up to Ni of the Maddhya Saptaka or the middle register and


The second part, called the Aantaraa, is the delineation of the Raga from the high Sa onwards, dwelling upon the notes of the Taara Saptaka or the high register


The Raga is introduced gradually – an idea or a group of closely related ideas at a time, in little or convenient episodes (akin to paragraphs in an essay). To show that an episode has ended and another will begin, a Moharaa is deployed. (More of the Moharaa later)


Generally (though not necessarily always as a rule), the use of the Moharaa in this section of the Poornanga Alap is restricted to the Sthayi part only and


An episode usually has a ceiling in terms of the note or notes it uses. That is to say, the first episode usually develops Sa of the Maddhya Saptaka (the middle register) and a few notes below it. The second episode may develop the lower register further, this time using notes lower than the lowest note used in the first register. The third register may use a note or two higher than the Maddhya Saptaka Sa. In that case, it can use all the notes already used in the earlier episodes. The next episode may introduce the next higher note of importance in the Raga; in that case it will use all the notes of the first three episodes. The fifth episode may explore a yet higher note which the earlier episodes did not. In short, when once a note is introduced in the course of the Alap, it and all notes lower than it may be used, but not one that is higher than it. This feature will be explained at greater length below.


The second section has periodic (occuring regularly in time) rhythmic beats. This section has, in its turn, two parts:

The Jod, which has the following features:


Here there is a regular and perceptible pulse


There are episodes exactly as above, punctuated by Moharaa


The speed is Maddhya Laya (medium tempo) at first – this part is called the Sanchari – and Druta Laya (fast tempo) later. The Druta Laya part is the start of the section of the Alap known as Abhoga


The Jhala, which is in Druta Laya and is the concluding portion. The Jhala ends with a short and quick rhythmless return to the Maddhya Saptaka Sa
************************************************************************************

Sorry that it is so long, however it is indicative of the many searches that I have encountered along the way tonight, in order to understand the subject.Various websites fluctuate between the number of parts, but they do conclude that there are sectional parts.
Let's hope 2016 is less violent and that people discover the soothing influence of ICM. Hari OM!

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Re: Basic ICM Concepts

Post by jaan e kharabat » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:44 am

I don't see anything in that article which contradicts what I've said. The author has delineated the structure of alap, he doesn't assert that alap is a part of raga.
If there are just ''six tones'' in an octave [sic] then why have frets for tones that don't exist?

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