peshkar

Discussions about the Indian hand-drums known as tabla.

Moderators: povster, s1owpoke, cabernethy, coughcapkittykat

udaymk
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:20 am

peshkar

Postby udaymk » Sun May 27, 2012 4:44 pm

Peshkar
Peshkar is a type of composition that is played at the start of every solo recital. The name itself indicates ‘Pesh’ and ‘Kar’. Peshkar means presenting a set of bol’s that are played in a slow tempo. The introductory phrases having high sustenance nature are part of the peshkar as these bol’s help to establish the basic tempo as well as the nada of the tabla. The structure of the peshkar is based on the sur that comes from the various open bol’s of the tabla such as dhin, dha etc and also end with a sur such as tina or dhina etc. The face of the peshkar is specifically designed so as to maintain the simplicity. This helps a artist to further develop various palta’s in terms of phrases,layakari’s and introducing various gap’s and also beautify the peshkar in order to establish the total nature of tabla with all its imaginative concepts. The imagination of a artist usually fills the peshkar and thus makes it more beautiful.
Nature of peshkar
Admist all the compositions of the tabla peshkar hold’s its own unique nature. A peshkar composition can easily be identified in a bunch of compositions like kayada, rela etc. The simplicity of one is to one bol’s is usually seen in peshkar thus making it recognizable among all its other contemporaries. Nature of peshkar resembles the “shant rasa ”.
Imagination is one of the important aspects of tabla as it adds the required color to the compositions. Peshkar is one such concept there is maximum scope for giving the new dimensions to the imaginative talent of a artist. It is necessary to stay in tune with laya as the the bol’s are at a major distance and get connected through nada .The sustenance of the nada is what adds to the melody of the peshkar. These bol syllables of the peshkar are precise, clear and usually fat in nature so as to get the sustenance and also to get the division of two matras.The division of the matras is felt through the sustenance of the nada that comes through the syllables.

hbajpai
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: peshkar

Postby hbajpai » Mon May 28, 2012 3:01 am

Good summary. How about some examples of some peshka?

Romi
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: peshkar

Postby Romi » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:31 am

thanks for the writing.
some example will do great?

pbercker
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:53 am
Location: st peters missouri

Re: peshkar - a classic one in tintal

Postby pbercker » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:40 pm

Romi wrote:thanks for the writing.
some example will do great?


This is classic peshkar in vilambit tintal, the first one I ever learned (and the first one many many others learn as well!):

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

And as usual here is the rendering of this lovely peshkar according to swarshala 2.0 which, whike still sounding a bit mechanical, still gives you a hint of the stately almost regal feeling it should convey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsqpop_W ... ture=g-upl

If I feel particularly brave today I might even inflict upon you my rendition of it later on today, though by all means this peshkar is simple enough to play that it would be interesting to see how others play it. Will anyone else share for the communal good ... (Landru would want it that way, if you want to be a part of the body ... :lol: obscure star trek reference!)

Pascal
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.

Luistabla
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:43 pm

Re: peshkar

Postby Luistabla » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:50 pm

hbajpai wrote:Good summary. How about some examples of some peshka?


the first one i ever learned:

|Dhin -kr Dhin Dha |Tet Dha dhi ná |Dha ti Dha -kr | Dha Dha Dhin ná
|Tet -Dha -ti Dha | Dhin ná Dha ti | Dha -kr Dha ti | Dha Dha tin ná
|Tin -kr Tin ná | Tet Tá Tin ná|Tá ti Tá -kr |Tá Tá Tin ná
|Tet -Dha -ti Dha | Dhin ná Dha ti | Dha - kr Dha ti | Dha Dha tin ná

Note that on the second and fouth phrases first Dha and first ti are both offbeat!
If anyone requests i can upload a video of me playing this..
Hope that everyone enjoys :D
Luis

pbercker
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:53 am
Location: st peters missouri

Re: peshkar

Postby pbercker » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:15 pm

Luistabla wrote:
hbajpai wrote:Good summary. How about some examples of some peshka?


the first one i ever learned:

|Dhin -kr Dhin Dha |Tet Dha dhi ná |Dha ti Dha -kr | Dha Dha Dhin ná
|Tet -Dha -ti Dha | Dhin ná Dha ti | Dha -kr Dha ti | Dha Dha tin ná
|Tin -kr Tin ná | Tet Tá Tin ná|Tá ti Tá -kr |Tá Tá Tin ná
|Tet -Dha -ti Dha | Dhin ná Dha ti | Dha - kr Dha ti | Dha Dha tin ná

Note that on the second and fouth phrases first Dha and first ti are both offbeat!
If anyone requests i can upload a video of me playing this..
Hope that everyone enjoys :D
Luis


Count me in as officially requesting a video upload. Perhaps you may know this already but you can make a utube video unlisted on utube and only give this forum the link to keep it semi-private. I want to see how you play those off-beat phrases! I always find them a challenge to do!


pascal
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.

Luistabla
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:43 pm

Re: peshkar

Postby Luistabla » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:15 pm

pbercker wrote:
Count me in as officially requesting a video upload. Perhaps you may know this already but you can make a utube video unlisted on utube and only give this forum the link to keep it semi-private. I want to see how you play those off-beat phrases! I always find them a challenge to do!

pascal


well, this video is NOT ME playing, i couldn´t find this yesterday, now i found it, here it is, Mr. Debu Nayak teaching this Peshkar in person..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V4pm4SmrDw

Of course, if you still want a video of #me# playing it i can still put it here for you to see.. :)

Also, i made a rough transcrip of zakir´s peshkar in this solo,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr-UnLy4QTY

( actually, i transcribed the entire solo :D)
i love it, and i love playing it! :D first too cycles go something like this:

|Dha - - - |Dhin - - kr |Dhin - dhin - |Dha - te te
|Dha - ge te |Dhin - - kr |Dhin - Dhin - |Dha - te te
|Dha - ge te| Tin - - kr |Tin - Tin - | Ta - te te
| Te - Te - |Dhin - - kr |Dhin - Dhin - | Dha - te te

| Dha - - kr | Dhin - Dha - | - - Dha - | Dhin - ná -
|- - Dha - |Dhin - ná - |Dha - Dha ti | tun - tá ka
| te te ge ná | - ge ná ti |tun - ná ga | Dha - ti -
|Dha - - kr | Dha - ti - |Dha - Dha ge | Tun - ná -

|ki ta ta ka | tun - ná - |ki t ta ka | te re ke te ...
( Please correct me if i´m wrong.. )

with all this said, i would like very much if some enlightened one cared to explain me HOW do we progress in peshkar, because one thing is to have a rythm cycle written and a few phrases that you can actually play, another thing is to understand HOW to progress in the bol fillings so we can achieve, at any given circumstance, a pleasent peshkar. Any one up to it?!?

in other words, what "rules" and "tricks" do we have to make a peshkar on the spot?

Luis

pbercker
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:53 am
Location: st peters missouri

Re: peshkar

Postby pbercker » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:43 pm

Luistabla wrote:
in other words, what "rules" and "tricks" do we have to make a peshkar on the spot?

Luis


david courtney wrote:Peshkar has a number of interesting characteristics. It often uses interesting counter-rhythms (layakari) and has a fully developed process of theme and variation. If the process of theme and variation follows the rules of kaida then it is called kaida-peshkar. Often substitution processes are used which, although logical, violate basic rules of kaida. In such cases it is simply referred to as peshkar. http://chandrakantha.com/tablasite/arti ... tm#PESHKAR


I too love peshkars the most I think. I've been reading about peshkars and it seems that the rules that apply (but which can vary from gharana to gharana) are a bit less strict than the rules that apply to a kaida for example. The most important stricture in building kaida variations is that no new bols can be introduced that were not in the original theme; this rule seems emphasized again and again in most everything I've read (see David Courtney for example). That appears not to be true in building the development of a peshkar. That alone it seems to me opens up very interesting possibilities in the development of peshkars that are not possible in the context of kaidas.

Note that what I quoted above is already a big clue it seems to me. First, what are the substitution processes allowable in kaida variations? These can also be used in peshkar variations. Second, what substitution processes does Courtney have in mind that, while logical, are not allowed in kaidas, but conceivably allowable in peshkars (an example would be useful ... anyone?).


I suspect there are more knowledgeable members here who might be quite happy to provide some additional guidelines along with useful examples for us to enjoy!

Pascal
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.

Acelga
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:59 am
Location: Germany

Re: peshkar

Postby Acelga » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:50 am

I love peshkars the most by FAR. Never was a big fan of relas and it is not the speed what I loved from the tabla in the first place.
Yes, sometimes I feel like I would like to be able to play infinite rolls at insane speeds, but this fever passes quickly and to be honest I prefer the feeling of a slow peshkar, where the resonance of the instruments shines at its best. When playing peshkar you dissect the rhythm at slow-motion and can play with different swings. You can mix up different compositions and is more "intelectual" than a Kaida or Rela, where the paltas are more or less established and creating variations on the go can be quite stressful. I find peshkars a good place for creativity. I am trying currently to develop two very well-known peshkars. One of them is this, played here by Zakirji:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbDofgD04dc

Which leads me to the question: when does a Peshkar becomes a Rela? Well I think it´s Zakir´s nature of putting everything together but I think at a certain point (around 2.00) he abandons clear and deliberately the essence of the peshkar for a while.

pbercker
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:53 am
Location: st peters missouri

Re: peshkar

Postby pbercker » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:02 pm

Luistabla wrote:with all this said, i would like very much if some enlightened one cared to explain me HOW do we progress in peshkar, because one thing is to have a rythm cycle written and a few phrases that you can actually play, another thing is to understand HOW to progress in the bol fillings so we can achieve, at any given circumstance, a pleasent peshkar. Any one up to it?!?

in other words, what "rules" and "tricks" do we have to make a peshkar on the spot?

Luis


You actually have two very different questions here: 1) Once we have a peshkar theme, how do we elaborate new variations on it. 2) How do we generate a peshkar theme in the first place.?

I've been doing a bit of reading on these two questions, and the first question might be answered as follows:

First, there seems to be widespread agreement that the peshkar especially is a reflection of the personality of its composer (Courtney, Leake, Dutta, Sadanand Naimpali). For example Naimpali writes:

"there is a sense of tranquility and laid-back attitude in its execution. This being the case, Peshkaar, in the true sense, is a reflection of an artist's individuality, experience, creativity, ability to exercise restraint and at the same time, impart a sense of serenity and gravity or seriousness to the presentation" (Naimpalli, page 8, tabla for advanced students")


Like the Kaida, a peshkar develops through theme and variation. However, unlike the kaida, the rules, such as they are, are more relaxed and less stringent.

1) A peshkar can introduce new bols in a variation that was not in the theme (but not every gharana follows this). This is strictly forbidden in a kaida.
2) A peshkar variation can be generated either by permutation of its thematic elements and/or substitution of new elements not found in the theme. A kaida variation strictly uses only a logical permutation of elements already established in the theme. (elements can conceptualized in terms of levels and sublevels).
3) A peshkar can have rhyming structure is not as strict as in a kaida.
4) A peshkar does not require a Bhari/Khali structure unlike the kaida.
5) A peshkar might, or might not, have a microtheme, while a kaida must have a microtheme within the theme (typically some form of Dhi Na Gin Na or Tin Na Ki Na - Courtney page 16, though the occasional exception does exist.)

A note about permutation vs. substitution (adapted from Courtney, page 18).

A permutation is a recombination of existing elements while substitution can drop in new bols not found in the theme.

For example, suppose this is the theme:

A B bhare
A B khali

Permutation of the elements A and B can result in the the first variation

A A A B
A A A B

and a second variation

A B A B
A B A B

on the other hand a substitution process in a peshkar might yield the following variation

A A C B
A A C B

The idea being that C is a wholly new element added to the theme (but hopefully an element that aesthetically in keeping with the theme).

Notice that once you have a theme, there's a procedure to generate variations for a peshkar vs. a kaida. But a question that seems a natural one to raise is this: what makes theme a peshkar theme as opposed to a kaida theme? This is essentially your second question.

Personally, I am not at all sure!

Notice that I've only addressed the *mechanics* of generating variations, but not the aesthetics. Ultimately, your really question is: how do we generate aesthetically pleasing peshkar themes along with aesthetically pleasing variations?

Again I am even less sure!

.... I hope this helps! lol

I hope that others might suggest some interesting possibilities to explore.


Pascal
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.

hbajpai
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: peshkar

Postby hbajpai » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:37 am

Pascal, just a general comment across multiple threads from you in the recent. Take it as you wish.

While your swarshala efforts are much appreciated and acknowledged, I think you should make it very clear if they are your interpretations of the compositions being rendered or the actual composition played by the respective artist.

If they are indeed the original compositions, then at a minimum consider providing a written source where one can find a transcription.

Ustad Latif Ahmed Khan, Pdt. Mahapurush Mishra, etc. are very big names even for the accomplished and established and furthermore, Peshkaar's is a very dangerous territory for any person.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Don't mind it.....

Fear the google bots :-)

pbercker
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:53 am
Location: st peters missouri

Re: peshkar

Postby pbercker » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:25 am

hbajpai wrote:Pascal, just a general comment across multiple threads from you in the recent. Take it as you wish.

While your swarshala efforts are much appreciated and acknowledged, I think you should make it very clear if they are your interpretations of the compositions being rendered or the actual composition played by the respective artist.

If they are indeed the original compositions, then at a minimum consider providing a written source where one can find a transcription.

Ustad Latif Ahmed Khan, Pdt. Mahapurush Mishra, etc. are very big names even for the accomplished and established and furthermore, Peshkaar's is a very dangerous territory for any person.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Don't mind it.....

Fear the google bots :-)


Two points:

1) Perhaps you missed the reference I gave on the utube website:

This wa recorded in Switzerland 3/21-1977 by Jean-luc Meylan. Notes provided by bruno caillat and upload by pascal.


2) There is no "interpretation" on my part - perhaps you also missed the the quoted material above entitled "CD liner notes" which includes all the material I included. If there was a problem with it you should say so. It is customary to quote material that is not one's own.

.... and what on earth are you on about peshkars being "dangerous territory"? I've made it abundantly in ALL my post that nearly nothing is original with me but that I often act as a kind of reporter - and i even include book title and page number of the authority I am quoting.....

What's my posting Mahapurush Misra performance got to do with anything here? I have no clue what the composition is nor have provided one.

I cannot help but feel that there's an innuendo here that you are not stating.

Pascal
Last edited by pbercker on Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.

hbajpai
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: peshkar

Postby hbajpai » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:40 am

Indeed. I missed your references. Sorry for the confusion.

pbercker
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 7:53 am
Location: st peters missouri

Re: peshkar

Postby pbercker » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:24 am

hbajpai wrote:Indeed. I missed your references. Sorry for the confusion.


Ok, no problem, however, I hope that you elaborate a bit on the nature of peshkars being "dangerous grounds". This sounds positively intriguing and mysterious, and I would like to know more! (I think in an interview, David Courtney said he despaired of ever giving a fully adequate explanation of what a peshkar was, but I don't remember where he said that, or even if he really said exactly that now come to think of it!).

In any case, I sense a new and interesting thread here possibly!

Pascal
My opinion given without any warranties, expressed or implied, that it's even relevant. It would be folly to rely on my opinion without seeking more professional tabla advice. If you are suffering from a tabla condition, seek immediate attention.

hbajpai
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: peshkar

Postby hbajpai » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:51 pm

Pascal, once again, it was not my intention to minimize your efforts. Your role in the recent posts with all the Swarshala grids popping up was simply unclear and confusing for me personally. Btw, I have no opinion or any connection with the software tool.

My intention was to simply suggest a more structured approach in communicating your ideas and your contribution. Your role of a "Reporter" is abundantly clear now. :-)

I not going to define a Peshkaar. It is readily available across its various interpretations by many stalwarts.

The essence of my point was, as simple as a Peshkaar sounds and as effortlessly it appears to be executed, the underlying complexities are significant and should be accounted for. In my own vernacular, if Kaidas are banging on the drums then a Peshkaar is constructing music from the drums. It takes a higher level of maturity, exposure and musical understanding to learn and execute a Peshkaar. A Peshkaar is a personal, individual creative style and should be discussed and presented with critical appreciation in a structured format.

I feel, if one is to particularly discuss Peshkaar's then besides notating a subset of phrases, they also inherit the responsibility to present that discussion with musical criticality and in a structured fashion.

So, Mr. Reporter, what I am saying is that in the matter's of a Peshkaar, the "Breaking News" approach does not do full justice to the topic. :-). Just to be clear here, I am kidding. Don't take it personally. :-)

On a serious note, I appreciate your enthusiasm and efforts. It takes time and effort to do what you are doing.


Return to “TABLA”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest