Traditional Kaida's Series 1

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hbajpai
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Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by hbajpai » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:23 pm

Hi all, similar to the series of posts last year, but this time on Kaida's and Relas. Feedback welcomed.

Kaida: Delhi Style. Jati: Chatushra. Taal: Teen Taal.
DhaTi DhaGe NaDha Tirakit DhaTi DhaGe TinNa KeNa
TaTi Take NaTa Tirakit DhaTi DhaGe DhinNa GeNa

Nikas: Standard.
Video Reference - Ustad Zakir Hussain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4alWFu2K ... page#t=40s
Book Reference: Very common in all books

Personal Commentary:
A very old, basic, simple yet a powerful kaida from Delhi. The variations are limitless. Personally, I like to use this kaida as an example to learn and demonstrate how variations are created. I find the 3rd beat to be very important and a required prelude to the following TiRaKit. Finally, it is a Chatushra Jati kaida and that framework must be maintained if one is to play the original kaida. Not to say that one can not explore creativity, but then it wont be the original kaida would it?

Ustad Habibuddin Khan played this kaida as:
DhaTi DhaGe NaDha KidTak DhaTi DhaGe TinNa KeNa
TaTi Take NaTa KidTak DhaTi DhaGe DhinNa Gena.

In one of Ustad Habibuddin Kahn Saheb's lecture/demonstrations, he insisted that the 'proper bols of this Delhi Kaida is based on KidTak and not Tirakit. Most people play it incorrectly with TiraKit.'

Unfortunately, he became the lone man standing on this is divided islands of KidTak and Tirakit within this kaida.

Audio sample of Ustad Habibuddin Khan: http://tabla-schule.ch/Sounds/B_Habibuddin_1.mp3

Video Sample of Ustad Zakir Hussain playing Habibuddin Khan Saheb's version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4alWFu2K ... age#t=197s

Finally, pick a phrase of interest and I will be happy to incorporate it into the next week's post on Traditional Kaida's.

Bhakta
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Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by Bhakta » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:14 am

I'm only a beginner (been taking lessons for almost a year and a half) and I love playing this kaida. Two simple variations I really enjoy playing are:
DhaTi DhaGe NaDha TiRaKiTa
DhaTiRa KiTaTaKa TaKaTaa TiRaKiTa

&

DhaTiRa KiTaTaKa TaKaTaa TiRaKiTa
DhaTiRa KiTaTaKa TaKaTaa TiRaKiTa

tirakitadha
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Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by tirakitadha » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:23 am

Bhakta wrote:I'm only a beginner (been taking lessons for almost a year and a half) and I love playing this kaida. Two simple variations I really enjoy playing are:
DhaTi DhaGe NaDha TiRaKiTa
DhaTiRa KiTaTaKa TaKaTaa TiRaKiTa

&

DhaTiRa KiTaTaKa TaKaTaa TiRaKiTa
DhaTiRa KiTaTaKa TaKaTaa TiRaKiTa
Dear hbajpai,
thank you for highlighting this kaida. i have learned this kaida from my guruji, he taught me to use ring finger "na" on edge of the shayee when playing third beat "nadha". which feels like a dampened bol before tirakit. but when i hear experts or even in these video link, the "na" of beat number 3 hears like normal 'Na' played on chanti (correct me if i am wrong). Could you please explain me which is the right tradional way of playing this. thank you.

Acelga
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Location: Germany

Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by Acelga » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:53 pm

Many thanks for this post.
Several years ago I started to put this kaida away from my riyaaz. Today after printing this post and looking for my old notations, I spent some quality time with it.

First of all, the version I have is quite different, I think it is because the person who taught me this composition learned it by ear and not from a teacher. So, my version started with "Dhati dhati dhadha trkt". Which is a good exercise for the middle finger as you can imagine, but is not the real thing :D
So playing the original kaida was more logical to my fingers. I enjoyed this a lot.

I also gave a chance to the KidTak version. Though I am a big fan of "Kititakaterekete" and I tend to use it a lot, I found it quite hard in this context. After the last "Ka" you have a Ghe, which make the thing worse when you speed up. I like the sound of this variation anyway but I can understand why the trkt version is more popular.

Loved the explanation and the samples. I have a request. I would like to know more about the kaida
Dhighe Dhina Trkt Dhina
Dhaghe Nadhi Gedhi Nana
which I think is from Banaras but again I don´t have all the info and never have good results when searching on the net, I only have a few paltas and I´m afraid I´m missing something.
Would be nice if in the future you make a post on this one. 8)

Many thanks again for the good work!

evening84
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Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by evening84 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:32 pm

Great post. Let the learning begin.

I have played this qaida on and off for years and quite incorrectly, I might add, until very recently.

A common pitfall, and I can safely assume I am not the only one falling into that trap, is to speed up the terekete by having it ride the preceding dha. Terekete, that lifelong obsession of tabla-players, has to come in the fourth beat here and fourth beat alone. Don't let it get a head-start in the third, ask your NaDha to be a little assertive and not give in to the ever-so-persuasive-seductress .
My karma ran over your dogma
http://evening84.blogspot.com/

hbajpai
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Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by hbajpai » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:43 pm

Let me try to group the response.

Evening84: excellent observation. I like:
Don't let it get a head-start in the third, ask your NaDha to be a little assertive and not give in to the ever-so-persuasive-seductres
Acelga: the piece you mention could be a variation in one simple way listed below written in double:
Dhatidhati nadhatirakit dhatidhage tinnakena dhatidhage nadhatirakit dhatidhage tinnakena
Tatitati natatirakit tatitake tinnakena dhatidhage nadhatirakit dhatidhage dinnagena

Also, as i travel east, into Beneras or after 3 stops, i will be sure to pick dhig dhinna... From beneras. If you need it sooner than that then send me a pm and i will send you the bols for main theme of the kaida.

Tirakitdha: as far as i know and i have seen, na is kinar in this kaida. One may coose to play anything, anyway, but then one should not mis-represent it.

Bhakta: i take your dhatira kittak takta tirakit and raise it to: :D
Dhatir kittir kitdha gena dhati dhage tinna kena dhati dhage nadha tirakit dhati dhage tinna kena
Tatir kittir kitta kena tati take tinna kena dhati dhage nadha tirakit dhati dhage tinna kena
Put it outside the mantras it is: dha tirakit tirakit dhagena......

Btw bhakta, i am curious on how you play your, dhattirakittak taktatirakit within the context of this kaida.

Finally, i am bound to misspell things. Please correct me particularly if misspell the bols. I dont want a typo to mis-repressent a composition.

Bhakta
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by Bhakta » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:49 pm

hbajpai wrote:Btw bhakta, i am curious on how you play your, dhattirakittak taktatirakit within the context of this kaida.
Sorry hbajpai, I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

I'll play:
DhaTi DhaGe NaDha Tirakita
DhaTirakitatakataka taatirakita
DhaTi DhaGe nadha tirakita
dhati dhage tina kena

then the Khali.

Ta = muted index on syahi Ka = bayan
Taa = Na
Then:
dhatirakita takataka taatirakita
dhatirakita takataka taatirakita
dhati dhage nadha tirakita
dhati dhage tina kena

then Khali.

I hope that answered your question. :)

hbajpai
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Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by hbajpai » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:10 pm

Bhakta - Sorry! May be I mis-read or read the line in question too quickly.

I thought you were playing:
DhaTira KitTak TakTa Tirakit

and I was interested in knowing how you played the two Tak's.

So, what I thought you were playing is:
DhaTi DhaGe NaDha Tirakit
DhaTiRa KitTak TakTa Tirakit
DhaTi DhaGe NaDha TiRaKit
DhaTI DhaGe TinNa Kena
Plus Khali.

I wished there was better way to write these....

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Nastika
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Location: Indiana, US

Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by Nastika » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:08 am

As always, thanks a million hbajpai! I always love your installments and hope you are never discouraged when you get little feedback; you get many views! I am sure I speak for many now, and those who will run searches in the future; when I say that we can't always contribute, but we can still appreciate and absorb. This kaida, in particular, is my favorite. Also, being a beginning kaida; it is much easier to follow for beginners like me. I really appreciate everyone's personal notes on this one, too!

hbajpai
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Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by hbajpai » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:40 pm

Thanks for your encouragement.

dhatitdha
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Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by dhatitdha » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:45 pm

Here are some more Kaydas

http://vishwamohini.com/music/index.php

jaysitar22
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by jaysitar22 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:07 pm

Thanks for posting this! It is very interesting to know detailed info about the compositions.
"If a man follows the mind given him and makes it his teacher, then who can be without a teacher?"
“To be truly ignorant, be content with your own knowledge.”
-Chuang Tzu

fdf
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Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by fdf » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:53 pm

Yes, thanks for posting all this!
My teacher thought me this kayda, which is quite similar:

Dhati dhage na_dhete tetekete
Dhati dhage tuna kena
+ khali

After a couple of years I still have trouble with dhetetetekete.
Her's my teacher playing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFvruu_BsA8

ankupat
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:35 pm

Re: Traditional Kaida's Series 1

Post by ankupat » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:10 pm

A few days ago I was going though these postings, and thought they were amusing. So I emailed them to Dr. Mrinal Pal to see his response. Here is what he sent me.

First of all, this is not a composition worth spending a lot of time discussing. It is really meant for beginners. Also, none of the posters has presented it in the rhythmic pattern it was intended to be played Everything is shown in 2s, whereas the first part sounds much better if played as 2 (dha ti) 3 (dha ge na) 3 {dha tere kete). (The second part remains the same.) During vistar (paltas, elaboration) this pattern should be maintained. The difference in aesthetic quality between playing in 2 3 3 and 2 2 2 2 is significant. Note that it could also be played in 3 3 2 or 3 2 3 for a totally different effect. Even in India, tabla players start in the right pattern, then, during vistar, after a few paltas, switch to anything they want. The reason is obvious -- it is difficult to maintain the pattern, but the most likely cause is that, in India, most players do no care about rhythm. Also, a lot of people claim they can form 50 or even 100 or more paltas. However, when listened to carefully, it becomes clear that only 4 or 5 make sense. To a trained ear this sounds silly, suggesting a lack of understanding on the part of the performers. Fortunately for them, the listeners do not care either

In the postings, variations and paltas are all mixed up. A variation is something derived from an original by making a few changes but maintaining the original structure. It is a completely separate composition and will have its own vistar. Also, any variation should be as good as or better than the original.

Here are a few simple variations. Only the first part is shown. The second part remains the same (although it could also be played in 2 3 3, 3 2 3 or 3 3 2).

1. dha ti dha ghere nage dha tere kete + the second part

2. dha ti dha ghere nage take tere kete (take on siyai) + the second part

3. dha ti dha ghere nage dhere dhere kete + the second part

4. dha ti dha tere kete dha ge na + the second part

5. dha ti dha tere kete take tere kete (take on siyai) + the second part

6. dha tere kete dha ti dha ge na + the second part

In all the above, one could remove the dha ti from both parts to transform them into triplets (tisra).

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