I feel dumb asking this but I have to

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xavxav8
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I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by xavxav8 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:06 am

So I learned teental years ago as
Dha Dhin Dhin Dha
Dha Dhin Dhin Dha
Dha Tin Tin Ta
Ta Dhin Dhin Dha

the tins also had me playing ke at the same time

HOWEVER in my recent lessons I learned
Dha Dhin Dhin Dha
Dha Dhin Dhin Dha
Dha Tin Tin Ta
Tete Dhin Dhin Dha

(no kes this time)

My first question is any tips for tete because I play te middle two fingers then te first finger normally which makes it quite difficult to immediately play Dhin. Also why the difference?

Another thing I was wondering was a small difference in playing my first kayda I learned back in the day

Dha Dha Tete
Dha Dha Tun na

Ta Ta Tete
Dha Dha Dhun na

but my tabla teacher wants me to take out Dhun and play Tun. I was wondering if it was a subjective thing like a preference about sound or more of a tabla grammar thing?

david
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by david » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:18 pm

These are minor stylistic differences. In the first case, this is just a small difference due to the fact that your two teachers represent different gharanas. In the second case, this simply reflects the fact that the Kaida does not lock you into a single approach to things, but instead defines a relatively wide area of possible interpretations. Both teachers are correct.

Peace

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evening84
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by evening84 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:34 am

A word of caution, if I may. This skipping of the Ke (howsoever light it may be) that accompanies a Tin is a very 'North American' thing (from what I have learnt from people who have had to do corrective actions on a lot of students who pick up this bad habit in this part of the world, for whatever reason). It will cause no end of trouble later on when that "skip the Ke on the baya shortcut" will ruin many a composition with a lack of balance. It is much harder to undo a bad habit, I say that from experience. So, Every Tin needs a (supporting) Ke, is a good mantra to adopt. My 2 cents.
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xavxav8
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by xavxav8 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:32 am

Just what my tabla teacher told me to do. Not sure why, he does train in India every year. He might just want me focusing on right hand bols.

david
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by david » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:18 pm

Other than an augmentation for artistic purposes, the use of Ke with Tin is a mere vestige of the old Pakhawaj. It was essential on the Pakhawaj, because failure to mute the left side would soon see it resonating as though it had been struck. However with the Tabla it is totally optional. Therefore the majority of Gharanas abandoned this a long time ago. Therefore the "Corrective" efforts are really nothing more than efforts to bend a students technique into what is today a harmless but unnecessary and minor technical approach to tabla.

edm_tabla
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by edm_tabla » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:13 pm

In my humble opinion I think it is a stylistic (gharana) thing, and not a North American/Indian thing.

When I was a kid in India I used to learn from one of the disciples of Pt. Swapan Choudhury, and learnt to play "tin" without "ke".

After many years, I started learning in North America from one of the disciples of Utd. AllaRakha and Zakir Hussain, and learnt to play "tin" with "ke". So, it could be a signature of Punjab style of playing, which has a strong Pakhawaj influence.

I think there is no right or wrong, and one should be comfortable playing both,

Cheers!

xavxav8
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by xavxav8 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:22 pm

edm_tabla wrote:In my humble opinion I think it is a stylistic (gharana) thing, and not a North American/Indian thing.

When I was a kid in India I used to learn from one of the disciples of Pt. Swapan Choudhury, and learnt to play "tin" without "ke".

After many years, I started learning in North America from one of the disciples of Utd. AllaRakha and Zakir Hussain, and learnt to play "tin" with "ke". So, it could be a signature of Punjab style of playing, which has a strong Pakhawaj influence.

I think there is no right or wrong, and one should be comfortable playing both,

Cheers!
david wrote:Other than an augmentation for artistic purposes, the use of Ke with Tin is a mere vestige of the old Pakhawaj. It was essential on the Pakhawaj, because failure to mute the left side would soon see it resonating as though it had been struck. However with the Tabla it is totally optional. Therefore the majority of Gharanas abandoned this a long time ago. Therefore the "Corrective" efforts are really nothing more than efforts to bend a students technique into what is today a harmless but unnecessary and minor technical approach to tabla.
Thanks guys!

rch
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by rch » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:01 pm

I was always taught to play 'Ke' on the bayan with 'tin'. I have taken lessons in india in the remote past ,as well as here in the Bay area at Ali Akbar College and with Zakir Hussein at Berkeley years ago, and was always taught this way. I am not sure if this has changed recently as David pointed out. Personally, I really like playing 'ke' with 'tin'. It just sounds so much better !!! And if you can snap on the tip of the bayan head with the index finger off the thumb ( like hitting a striker on the carrom board),that really brings a new dimension to the bayan sound. 'Tin' is such an vital bol in all the Tekas, that IMO, at least if accompanying a vocalist ,you ought to play 'ke'. However,if I have to play really fast , which I rarely do, i do skip ONE ' ke' in Teen Tal. I have tried many times to play 'tin' without 'ke' , but I just can't. Very hard to unlearn that is so embedded in me. The only way I can play ' tin' without 'ke' is if i say the bol 'tun or thon' instead of 'tin'! :(

xavxav8
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by xavxav8 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:23 pm

Yea I haven't had any trouble switching back and forth, now I DO have trouble on phrases in teental like
Dha Dhin Dhin Dha
Dha Dhin Dhin Dha
Dha Tete Tin Na
Tete Dhin Dhin Dha

because the first tete I use my middle two fingers going down and to the left and then the second te is my pointer finger going down and to the right then tin using my pointer immediately after. As you can imagine that is quite difficult. Which only serves to make me fumble through the rest of the four or five beats. So sometimes I imagine starting the tete with my pointer and reversing the muscle memory and THAT is where I have trouble.

dhatitdha
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Re: I feel dumb asking this but I have to

Post by dhatitdha » Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:03 pm

For me, Using Ke with Tin is a good & common practice.

About "Tete", in this particular case reverse Tete [ First index & then middle finger or rest of the three fingers ] will be easy & will sound good because it will be closure to "Traka" in fast speed.

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