What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

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sbandyo
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What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

Post by sbandyo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Can someone share their experience with what Dayan scales are normally used for different accompaniment? I have seen ladies usually sing at scale B-flat or A and men at C#. But I was curious what scales normally sitar, sarod etc. are played at?
I have 2 old Dayans both at C. Both doesn't sound that great. I am thinking of getting a couple of new ones and was wondering what scale should I get.
Also, for Riyaz or practice they say to get a wider diameter low scale Dayan is better. Is that at D# (lower octave) usually?

evening84
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Re: What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

Post by evening84 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:25 pm

I occasionally accompany some vocal students. In general, men have their tonic at (C, C#, D) and women at (G,G#,A) although there are always exceptions. (And then of-course, there are proponents of the "harmonium gharana", who change their tonics by pushing in or pulling out those knobs on the harmonium so as to pick a scale where they will sound the least besur - and are likely the ones to complain the most that the Tabla is not quite right, whatever that means). Most Sitar players use D, in my limited experience. Don't know about Sarod although I do not expect it be very different, perhaps a tad lower so maybe C, C#. For your own riyaz, it is a personal choice - I mostly use wider Tablas in the lower octave (I have one at G# and another one even lower at E) but I do switch to higher-pitched ones occasionally for variety.

And one other thing I wanted to mention is that although matching your daya to the vocalist's tonic is ideal; one could also tune to PA (fifth) or MA (fourth) if you only have one daya with a limited range and it is just not possible to tune to the tonic.
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dhatitdha
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Re: What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

Post by dhatitdha » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:00 am

Male vocalist : C, C#, D
Female : G, G#, A
Sitar, Sarod : C, C#
Santoor : C#, D, D#
Flute : C, C#, D

In my opinion you should have Tablas of scale C#, D#, G# which will normally address your requirement, because every Tabla scale can be shifted +/- 1 note i.e. C# can be used for C & D scale, same with others.

For Riyaz, one should practice of different diameter/scales Tablas, that will help.

Vivek
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Re: What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

Post by Vivek » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:35 pm

dhatitdha wrote:Male vocalist : C, C#, D
Female : G, G#, A
Sitar, Sarod : C, C#
Santoor : C#, D, D#
Flute : C, C#, D
This is mostly correct, but a few refinements:
1. Females often sing in Bb (A#) as well
2. D is not uncommon for sitar, although C# is certainly the most common
3. D is quite rare for flute (bansuri) and C is VERY rare. The most common concert bansuri pitch is E. Some players will play one note lower (Eb) or higher (F). Beyond that, you might hear any bansuri pitched higher than F, but rarely below Eb or D, because below that the are simply too big to be played easily by most people.
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rch
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Re: What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

Post by rch » Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:02 pm

Very Informative thread. I always wondered about this. During tabla practice our teacher always had us tune to C#.
However, when I tried to google the chromatic tuner( below), a bit bewildered on Female vocalists scale of G#. Afraid of ripping my head and ear drums!!!! :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... F09F0F4645

proxmire
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Re: What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

Post by proxmire » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:50 am

From what I have heard, the high E is the smallest and highest pitch tabla you can get, correct me if I am wrong. so that means when you play with a male singer at c#, you have to have a larger and lower pitch tabla at around g# for female right?

proxmire
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Re: What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

Post by proxmire » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:02 pm

profpandit wrote:C# tablas are roughly 5.5-6" for the higher octave and about 7" for the lower octave

here's a little math

Assuming the primary mode of the vibration is a concentric wave
that radiates in from the chaanti the center

The resonances of this mode will occur at multiples of the base ratio

7" = ~18cm

assuming a wall thickness of 1cm

that leaves an effective membrane diameter of 16cm

speed of sound in air = ~300 m/s

300 / .16 = ~1925

This will factorize down to 1925 962.5 481.25 240.625

C# is around 275Hz which is pretty close to 240.625


uh, okay. 240 isn't near 277-278 hz where a c is. the tabla has upper partials that are far more harmonically even than this discrepancy, and is actually the most harmonic drum you can find. I play other tuned drums like ngoma, conga, and shime daiko, and it amazes my every time to hear how harmonic and clear the tabla note is.

Anyway, low C# tablas are very rare, and I have only seen one in my life, and I doubt very many people are using them to accompany male vocals or sitar/sarode.

My question was if tabla players actually accompany female singers with a lower pitch tabla, or do they use a drum tuned to the 5th? And also has anyone seen a higher pitched drum than high E?

Shawn
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Re: What Dayans (scale) are normally used during accompaniment?

Post by Shawn » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:36 pm

Based on my experience, the most common pitches are:

Male vocals: C to E
Female vocals: G# to Bb
Sitar: D (occasionally C#, rarely C)
Sarod: C
Santoor: D
Bansuri: E

It is definitely necessary, over time, to have dahinas in different diameters to be able to accommodate the different pitches.

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