Creating Paltas for Kaidas

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singhhh_ap
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Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by singhhh_ap » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:26 pm

I would like to know what are the rules we should keep in mind when we create new variations for the Kaida? Is there a guide available which teaches how to create new variations.

Challenge:

Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmWG-YxNUiA

Benarsidass
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by Benarsidass » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:04 am

Here are a few notes from a website I'm working on (to be launched sometime in the near future, I hope). There are examples to go with this, but I can't port those over from the website without a lot of work. So, just to get the ball rolling:

General Guidelines of Kayda Development

Nearly everyone agrees on a few basic guidelines of kayda development:
- Only bols (strokes and phrases) from the original theme should be used.
- Variations keep the original tali-khali structure of the theme (with a few exceptions).
- Variations are developed systematically (more or less).

Kayda variations are developed systematically
Traditional kayda variations are generally developed systematically, but only in a very loose sense of the term “systematic”. There is no strict formula for kayda development.

There are some common patterns and approaches, but they are very flexible. And every kayda presents its own possibilities for creative variations.

Below are some general approaches and techniques for creating traditional kayda variations. Keep in mind that the number of different kaydas and possible variations is vast, and there will be many exceptions to the guidelines and techniques below.

Systematic approaches to creating kayda variations:
- first create variations from the largest bols (phrases) in the theme
- then create variations from smaller bols
- focus on bols which have a “strong connection”
- develop multiple variations from the same bols before moving on to other bols
- include the original theme (or part of it) at the end of the new variation
- create new themes from smaller phrases, and then create variations based on the new theme according to the same approaches above

Common techniques for creating the variations:
- repeat bols
- rearrange bols
- substitute bols
- invert bols
- add pauses between bols

Benarsidass
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by Benarsidass » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:15 am

It's true that skills like kayda development are traditionally learned implicitly through good examples and guidance from a master (in other words, not analytically). But that doesn't mean that there isn't a systematic approach, or that one shouldn't follow guidelines. "Kayda" means "system of rules" or "method" after all. And if you look at variations from any master, or listen to most traditional tabla solos, you'll usually see development of paltas along the lines mentioned above.

I've witnessed many a student, including myself, create variations that were technically correct, but simply didn't sound right to my teacher or senior gurubais. It's takes a long time to develop that ear.

So just telling students to create their own variations based on what sounds good to them is not always the best advice. Because it's not about what sounds good to you, it's about what sounds right in the tradition. With time, that will become what sounds good to you.

Benarsidass
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by Benarsidass » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:52 am

profpandit wrote:Screw tradition. What does that have to do with creating paltas?
Creating paltas is the tradition. And that's what the original question was about. If you're saying the tradition is for "sticklers" or "impedes progress" then that's a different question.

But there's no denying most players follow the general guidelines and approaches of the tradition (with lots of creative exceptions). And I don't think singhhh_ap really cares whether or not you agree with that traditional approach. He's just trying to understand it.

evening84
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by evening84 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:59 am

profpandit wrote: Screw tradition. What does that have to do with creating paltas?
That has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements that I have ever heard here. And coming from you Khitchdee (or profpandit, the new avatar), that is saying something because the bar for bullshit has been set incredibly high.

Of-course, the creation of paltas has everything to do with tradition. In spite of all the differences between various gharanas, there is very little that separates them in how the paltas are developed from a kayada theme within each tradition. And there most certainly is a method to the madness, quite succinctly put forward by Benarsidass.

Nobody is stopping any one from merrily going forward and creating one's own paltas, howsoever one sees fit. Nobody can stop one from becoming a New Age musician.
My karma ran over your dogma
http://evening84.blogspot.com/

hbajpai
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by hbajpai » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:01 pm

singhhh_ap wrote:I would like to know what are the rules we should keep in mind when we create new variations for the Kaida? Is there a guide available which teaches how to create new variations.

Challenge:

Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmWG-YxNUiA
This subject has been covered on this forum. Many published books by experts and stalwarts describe how to do this much better than I have attempted below. I agree with Benarsidass and Evening84.

I am assuming one knows the cardinal rule in Kaida expansion. Only the available phrases in the main theme are used. I.e. No new phrases are introduced. We can dissect this one rule alone later.

If I have made cut-paste errors, please provide your corrections. Finally, the variations provided below are quite simple and very systematically structural. One can still follow this sequence, but present each one of the variations differently. The idea is to present a systematic, structural sequence.

Let us take the main theme or the "Mukh" as originally provided:
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete
Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

The first set of paltas establish "Hath Sadhana" or setting the hands. I am sure you will see why? Because of the in-place repetitions.
Dohra
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete
Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga / Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

Adha-Dohra
Dha-tete Dhetetete Dha-tete Dhetetete / Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete
Ta-tete Thetetete Ta-tete Thetetete / Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

Adha-Adha-Dohra (as my friend calls it)
Dha-tete Dha-tete Dha-tete Dhetetete / Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete
Ta-tete Ta-tete Ta-tete Thetetete / Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

The next set of platas, allow one to learn the time sequence behind the kaida.
Vishram
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / Dha(sss) (ssss) Ghedenag Denetaga (say DhaAAAAAAA Ghednag Denetaga)
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete
Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga / Ta(sss) (ssss) Kedenag Tenetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

Adha-Vishram
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Dha(sss) / Ghedenag Denetaga Ghedenag Denetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete
Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Ta(sss) / Kedenag Tenetaga Kedenag Tenetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

Adha-Adha Vishram with an off-beat spin
Dha-tete Dhetetete (ssss) Dhetete / Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete
Ta-tete Thetete (ssss) Thetetete / Ta-tete Thetetete Kedenag Tenetaga
Dha-tete Dhetetete Ghedenag Denetaga / tetetete Ghedenag Denenaga Terekete

Again, the above 3 examples explore the very basic time signature of the kaida and allows one to learn the time slices.

After this section, the actual paltas begin. Most common way is to gradually take phrases in the sequence from the kaida and expand upon them. The more advance players will not only take phrases, but also the time slices in parallel. I will let the board explore and discuss some of these paltas. After exploring this approach, one starts doing other things like "Laut-Palut" or back to front. Bhari/Khali mixes. Humble demonstration of strength and by exploding out into repetitive TiTe's etc.

Hope this helps.

singhhh_ap
Posts: 101
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by singhhh_ap » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:13 pm

Thanks to all who are responding to this with their input. Mr. Bajpai, you are being very humble for your knowledge. :)

Can you please share the names of the published books where this topic has been discussed?

hbajpai
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by hbajpai » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:07 pm

Pick up books by any Tabla stalwart, musicologist. A short list of names below.
1. David Courtney
2. Arvind Mulgaonkar
3. Sadanand Naimpally
4. Sudhir Mainkar

Alternatively, listen to any traditionally trained, performing artist. Listening will enhance other skills too.

One needs to get to a point where one ahould be able to extract the main theme just by listening at single speed. Then using the expansion structure derive at least 20-25 paltas quite easily.

Liquid
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by Liquid » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:54 am

My latest tabla tutorial gives some ideas on creating paltas from kaidas. You can check it out here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrriE6zW7vA
Twitter: http://twitter.com/PraveenSawh
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/PraveenSawh
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/PraveenSawh

Liquid
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by Liquid » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:38 pm

profpandit wrote: This is a good analysis.
As one can see, it's been arrived at using some very simple constructs
such as changing speed (and inserting silence) and phase (going off-beat)

If I were tying to design paltas, I would start with with just these constructs.
The exercise of going through the design would probably reveal why certain paltas have been designed a certain way
That would be a more useful exercise that monkey style "cut and paste"
which is the way you are suggesting

Also, I am assuming OP want to go beyond hath-sadhana
For that purpose, the paltas designed by past experts are probably enough
because they were designed for that purpose
Hi profpandit, not sure if the “monkey style cut and paste" comment was directed at me but here are my thoughts. There are many ways of coming up with variations. In the video I give some ideas that involve thinking abstractly about numbers. There is benefit to this not only in the production of variations but also in deepening one’s understanding of the phrases and concept of rhythm. If one can learn to play series of 5’s or 7’s etc, starting at different points, and know where each one falls in relation to the underlying pulse, that will go a long way to develop one's sense of rhythm. Kaidas are a great way to hash out these sequences programmatically in one's study and practice. Then, when it comes time to go on stage and perform, these ideas will naturally come out but not necessarily be limited to the context of kaida.

This is one of many approaches to creating. One should learn and apply as many as possible to get a well-rounded skillset. Above all, creativity should be guided by the stories that you want to tell. Maybe there's a certain phrase or idea you want to expand upon. You can express this in a sequence of variations, one leading to the next, that reveals the story as the performance unfolds. The more tools you have to create, and the more proficient you are at using those tools, the more freedom you will have to do this :)
Twitter: http://twitter.com/PraveenSawh
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/PraveenSawh
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tablataal
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Re: Creating Paltas for Kaidas

Post by tablataal » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:06 am

what is all your guru's views on teaching Kaidas. Do they mainly spend time on the theme a few variations and expect you to come up with the rest and practices them on your own time? My teacher usually gives us theme, 5-6 variations and tihai. Rest is up to us. ofcourse if we come up with things he will give feedback on them but thats optional. I wonder how other gurus approach it.

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