Introducing various Jati's into a Chatushra Jati Kaida

Discussions about the Indian hand-drums known as tabla.

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singhhh_ap
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:31 pm

Introducing various Jati's into a Chatushra Jati Kaida

Postby singhhh_ap » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:56 am

I have heard about it from the accomplished Tabla players but never saw any discussion on this. Can someone elaborate on this technique?

Regards,
AP

hbajpai
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Re: Introducing various Jati's into a Chatushra Jati Kaida

Postby hbajpai » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:56 pm

The concept of Jati is not complicated or advanced at all it has been discussed here.


First, lets talk framework. Then we can talk compositions.

Imagine Tick beat 1. Tock beat 2.

Tick tock tick tock
Chatushra 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4 also called 4/4
Tishra single 1 2 3 / 1 2 3 also called 3/4
Khand 123, 12/ 123, 12 also called 5/4
Mishra 123,1234 / 123,1234 also called 7/4
Sankarna 123,12345 / 123,12345 typically 1234,12,123 / 1234,12,123 also called 9/4

So now if you look at dha dhin dhin dha as just one line consiting of 4 matras:

Chatushra (1234, 1234,1234, 1234) would 1,2,4,8 bols per matra every matra
Tishra would (123,123,123,123) 3,6,12 bols per matra every matra
Khand (123/12, 123/12, 123/12, 123/12) would have the 3,6,12 bols in matra 1 and 2,4,8 bols in matra two then back to 3,6,12 bols in matra 3 and 2,2,4,8 bils in matra 4
Mishra (123/1234, 123/1234, 123,1234, 123,1234) would have 3, 6,12 bols in matra 1 and 1,2,4,8 bols in matra two then back to 3,6,12 bols in matra 3 and then 1,2,4,8 bols in matra 4
Sankarna (1234/12123, 1234/12123, 1234,12123, 1234/12123) would have 2,4,8,16 bols in matra 1 and 5 bols matra 2 split as 12,123 then 2,4,8,16 bols in matra 3 and 5 bols matra 4 split as 12,123.

See if this helps as a start.

hbajpai
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:46 pm

Re: Introducing various Jati's into a Chatushra Jati Kaida

Postby hbajpai » Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:51 am

hbajpai wrote:The concept of Jati is not complicated or advanced at all it has been discussed here.


First, lets talk framework. Then we can talk compositions.

Imagine Tick beat 1. Tock beat 2.

Tick tock tick tock
Chatushra 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4 also called 4/4
Tishra single 1 2 3 / 1 2 3 also called 3/4
Khand 123, 12/ 123, 12 also called 5/4
Mishra 123,1234 / 123,1234 also called 7/4
Sankarna 1234,12345 / 1234, 12345 typically 1234,12,123 / 1234,12,123 also called 9/4

So now if you look at dha dhin dhin dha as just one line consiting of 4 matras:

Chatushra (1234, 1234,1234, 1234) would 1,2,4,8 bols per matra every matra
Tishra would (123,123,123,123) 3,6,12 bols per matra every matra
Khand (123/12, 123/12, 123/12, 123/12) would have the 3,6,12 bols in matra 1 and 2,4,8 bols in matra two then back to 3,6,12 bols in matra 3 and 2,2,4,8 bils in matra 4
Mishra (123/1234, 123/1234, 123,1234, 123,1234) would have 3, 6,12 bols in matra 1 and 1,2,4,8 bols in matra two then back to 3,6,12 bols in matra 3 and then 1,2,4,8 bols in matra 4
Sankarna (1234/12123, 1234/12123, 1234,12123, 1234/12123) would have 2,4,8,16 bols in matra 1 and 5 bols matra 2 split as 12,123 then 2,4,8,16 bols in matra 3 and 5 bols matra 4 split as 12,123.

See if this helps as a start.

Aadil
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:03 pm

Re: Introducing various Jati's into a Chatushra Jati Kaida

Postby Aadil » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:33 pm

Khand (123/12, 123/12, 123/12, 123/12) would have the 3,6,12 bols in matra 1 and 2,4,8 bols in matra two then back to 3,6,12 bols in matra 3 and 2,2,4,8 bils in matra 4


I always thought the bols continue to be evenly spread in Khanda, Mishra, Sankirna i.e in khanda it would be 1.25/2.5/5 bols per matra.
Are the bols unevenly spread in these as you mention above?

To elaborate on my question - how is roopak played over 4 beats?
Would it be :
Ti Ti Na - over 2 beats
Dhi Na - 1 beat
Dhi Na - 1 beat

or would it be 7/4 bols played per matra? (i cant count that with any confidence..so cant write it either)

tablataal
Posts: 79
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Re: Introducing various Jati's into a Chatushra Jati Kaida

Postby tablataal » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:00 pm

there is a pretty good book dedicated to this topic, http://www.alokedutta.com/shop/rhythm-o ... -download/

evening84
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Re: Introducing various Jati's into a Chatushra Jati Kaida

Postby evening84 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:24 pm

To answer the original question, I am not sure there are any hard and fast rules regarding the introduction of various jatis. Typically, this would be done in the beginning (in between going from single to double speed) and never more than a few cycles - the idea is just give a flavor of how the same phrases would sound in another jati (most of the time in tisra-jati). Of-course, nobody prevents one from going on to one jati and then the other and then yet another, but I do not find that particularly appealing as a matter of personal taste (in the context of a chatusra-jati kaida presentation). As to what is played, it could be the theme modified slightly to fit the jati (relatively easy) or it could be the same composition played such that it fits in a different number of cycles (more difficult). For example, say the kaida theme (bhari + khali) fits in one cycle of lehera - when played in double speed, one can fit in the theme twice in the same cycle of lehera. Now if the composition is played such that you can play the theme three times in two complete cycles (and you get the accents right as the phrases get sliced and diced in just about every possible way) you would be playing in tisra-jati.
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singhhh_ap
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Introducing various Jati's into a Chatushra Jati Kaida

Postby singhhh_ap » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:52 pm

Thank you for the response. I have a Kaida reference somewhere so I will post it as soon as I find it in my database.


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